Me thinks….

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Whitneyrifle
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Me thinks….

Post by Whitneyrifle » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:52 pm

Me thinks there is some deception going on. I am not familiar if there is a current limited tribute knife out there, but even the title/labeling is deceptive…..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115484623512?h ... SwOKJi6-mQ
You have to be trusted by the people that lie to you. So that when they turn their backs on you, You'll get the chance to put the knife in….

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Gunsil » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:21 pm

I think that's a "Parker special" from the late 80s-early 90s. Likely made by Olbertz for Parker who had a bunch of these made up with different old maker's names. Seller definitely knows dang well what it is yet doesn't say so in his ad. If you look at his other items he also has one marked Miller Bros and one marked Excelsior knife Co. Never buy from such sellers.

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by robpa » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:38 pm

I've several Parkers Golden Age productions and they are top quality. Here are the names of that series.
C. platts & Sons, Gowanda,N.Y.
Crandall cutlery
Kinfolks, little valley, new York
Platts bros, Eldred
JDC Kane Pa
Kane Cuttlery Company
WR Case & SonsBradford Germany
Marbles Pocket Knives1902-1908
Little Valley Cutlery Assn
Standard knife Co
C Platts & Sons gowanda
C platts & sons Eldred
They were hand made in quantities of 100-200 each.forged, not stamped His idea was to honor the pld knife makers. Steve Oiefer says some were made by Queen?? I havent seen that in Parkers writing but I dont dispute that either. like his Bulldogs, some were Queen, some were GEC. I cant find anything on the knife posted above.
I am always looking for more.

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Whitneyrifle » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:59 pm

robpa wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:38 pm
I've several Parkers Golden Age productions and they are top quality. Here are the names of that series.
C. platts & Sons, Gowanda,N.Y.
Crandall cutlery
Kinfolks, little valley, new York
Platts bros, Eldred
JDC Kane Pa
Kane Cuttlery Company
WR Case & SonsBradford Germany
Marbles Pocket Knives1902-1908
Little Valley Cutlery Assn
Standard knife Co
C Platts & Sons gowanda
C platts & sons Eldred
They were hand made in quantities of 100-200 each.forged, not stamped His idea was to honor the pld knife makers. Steve Oiefer says some were made by Queen?? I havent seen that in Parkers writing but I dont dispute that either. like his Bulldogs, some were Queen, some were GEC. I cant find anything on the knife posted above.
I am always looking for more.
I am sure there is a rightful place for those knives in collecting, I am not knocking them for their collecting value. It is the fact that the seller seems to be deliberately trying to deceive the novice collector. That is my issue. It’s a reproduction, just call it that.
You have to be trusted by the people that lie to you. So that when they turn their backs on you, You'll get the chance to put the knife in….

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by robpa » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:54 pm

Not all of my post came thru. I have not found anything on the above mentioned knife. Yes, almost all knives today are reproductions of pre existing knives by the original makers. I dont know what this knife is,

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:23 am

Here are pictures of the OP knife from the seller’s listing. The knife is clearly stamped “Germany” in ink on the pile side of the master blade (visible in two pictures including a close-up of the “Germany” stamp). I see no attempted deception, unless you’re in the camp that believes Parker had them made with deception in mind to begin with (the COO being inked on and easily buffed off).

The knife for sale appears un-altered from its original state. It’s clearly a reproduction, however probably not a copy of an original Union Razor pattern. There were several “Anglo-Saxon Whittlers” of this pattern made, having different maker’s stamps, in this series IIRC.

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Whitneyrifle » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:28 am

It is not the knife I question, it is the seller. Looking at the listing title, it is listed as “Rare” never mentioning Germany or the origin of the knife, that is a questionable seller
You have to be trusted by the people that lie to you. So that when they turn their backs on you, You'll get the chance to put the knife in….

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:39 am

From the seller’s description
This is not an old Vintage Union Razor knife. No early Union Razor Knives were produced in Germany. I believe this knife was made at the Olbertz factory in Germany, not sure exactly when but my opinion is probably in the 80's or possibly a little later. I am told that Jim Parker had them produced.
Ken

Edit: I just looked at who the seller is. He’s a member here in good standing, a veteran eBay seller of quality knives, himself a collector and author of a book on older Case knives. Me thinks you’re reading something into it that’s not there. If there is any deception it’s not intentional.
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.

When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Whitneyrifle » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:50 am

That portion was not in the original listing, you can see the time stamp. I posted it below.
I retract my original statement and place an apology on the table, he was/is now honest.

On Aug-05-22 at 16:07:18 PDT, seller added the following information:
This is not an old Vintage Union Razor knife. No early Union Razor Knives were produced in Germany. I believe this knife was made at the Olbertz factory in Germany, not sure exactly when but my opinion is probably in the 80's or possibly a little later. I am told
You have to be trusted by the people that lie to you. So that when they turn their backs on you, You'll get the chance to put the knife in….

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:56 am

::tu:: ::tu::

Ken
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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:56 am

He is using words in his title to attract searches. That is the reason you see people that say “no Case”. The word Case in the search engine will draw the searchers to this listing. Putting other search terms will improve who sees your listing. I don’t do stuff like that but I have been frustrated with eBay’s search engine. You can list a knife and never find it in the common search terms that you will use to normally find them. I think eBay frustrates your searches on your listings to encourage you to utilize their advertising, which runs an addition 8 to 12 % on top of the normal fees. It gets frustrating and I’ve been tempted to do those kinds of things myself to get around the algorithms.
SSk Mark “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.” Ronald Reagan

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Miller Bro's » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:15 am

Mumbleypeg wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:39 am
Edit: I just looked at who the seller is. He’s a member here in good standing, a veteran eBay seller of quality knives, himself a collector and author of a book on older Case knives. Me thinks you’re reading something into it that’s not there. If there is any deception it’s not intentional.
I second what Ken has said above ::tu::

Tom does not sell counterfeit knives and if something is wrong he will correct it.
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Re: Me thinks….

Post by 1967redrider » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:22 pm

That "no Case" wording is just to attract search hits, I see it on eBay quite often, and I'm not a fan. ::disgust:: Every knife has no case- do you mean sheath, scabbard, box, wrap? Or it doesn't come with a case of beer? ::uc::
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Re: Me thinks….

Post by winst » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:06 pm

Miller Bro's wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:15 am
Mumbleypeg wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:39 am
Edit: I just looked at who the seller is. He’s a member here in good standing, a veteran eBay seller of quality knives, himself a collector and author of a book on older Case knives. Me thinks you’re reading something into it that’s not there. If there is any deception it’s not intentional.
I second what Ken has said above ::tu::

Tom does not sell counterfeit knives and if something is wrong he will correct it.
[/quot

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by winst » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:17 pm

winst wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:06 pm
Miller Bro's wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:15 am
Mumbleypeg wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:39 am
Edit: I just looked at who the seller is. He’s a member here in good standing, a veteran eBay seller of quality knives, himself a collector and author of a book on older Case knives. Me thinks you’re reading something into it that’s not there. If there is any deception it’s not intentional.
I second what Ken has said above ::tu::

Tom does not sell counterfeit knives and if something is wrong he will correct it.
Tom , like most of us, some times fails to realize that the would-be bidder does not have the knife knowledge that most of us have. This sometimes causes our listings to be somewhat deceptive. There remains the occasional temptation to take advantage of the less informed bidder but I think, as for the great majority of AAPK members, we have an honest fellowship and [ladyship]. Hope this is an excepted gender term.....

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by olderdogs1 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:43 pm

Miller Bro's wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:15 am
Mumbleypeg wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:39 am
Edit: I just looked at who the seller is. He’s a member here in good standing, a veteran eBay seller of quality knives, himself a collector and author of a book on older Case knives. Me thinks you’re reading something into it that’s not there. If there is any deception it’s not intentional.
I second what Ken has said above ::tu::

Tom does not sell counterfeit knives and if something is wrong he will correct it.
I appreciate the support Dimitri and Ken, it means a lot. As Dimitri said if something is wrong I will correct it and I have no interest in selling a knife that is not right. I personally don't feel the listing was misleading as the knife was listed as a modern knife and was not included with my vintage listings. GEC makes a fine knife and a lot of them are stamped NORTHFIELD and TIDIOUTE CUTLERY. People are aware that they are not vintage knives produced in the early 1900's. People are of course entitled to their opinion.
I do want to cover a couple of things that were mentioned in a couple of the posts. It was suggested by one poster that if the knife was made in Germany the title should say so. Unfortunately eBay limits the number of characters you can have in the title. My listing description stated that the knife was produced in Germany and their was a closeup picture of the faint ink stamp that is on the knife. As Ken pointed out it could be easily removed if deception was the goal. It is certainly not a goal with my sales.
The other term that was mentioned was the "No Case" term. I always say include a" /box" when I use the term. Surprisingly if you sell a lot of knives on eBay, I have sold over 17,000, some people will ask the question "DOES IT COME WITH THE ORIGINAL CASE AND PAPERWORK. Sometimes they will even ask that question about knives that never came with a case or box. I agree that it is possible that the saying does get a seller more views.
Thanks again Dimitri and Ken for the support and I will be glad to field any questions at any time.

Tom

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by Whitneyrifle » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:38 pm

olderdogs1 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:43 pm
Miller Bro's wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:15 am
Mumbleypeg wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:39 am
Edit: I just looked at who the seller is. He’s a member here in good standing, a veteran eBay seller of quality knives, himself a collector and author of a book on older Case knives. Me thinks you’re reading something into it that’s not there. If there is any deception it’s not intentional.
I second what Ken has said above ::tu::

Tom does not sell counterfeit knives and if something is wrong he will correct it.
I appreciate the support Dimitri and Ken, it means a lot. As Dimitri said if something is wrong I will correct it and I have no interest in selling a knife that is not right. I personally don't feel the listing was misleading as the knife was listed as a modern knife and was not included with my vintage listings. GEC makes a fine knife and a lot of them are stamped NORTHFIELD and TIDIOUTE CUTLERY. People are aware that they are not vintage knives produced in the early 1900's. People are of course entitled to their opinion.
I do want to cover a couple of things that were mentioned in a couple of the posts. It was suggested by one poster that if the knife was made in Germany the title should say so. Unfortunately eBay limits the number of characters you can have in the title. My listing description stated that the knife was produced in Germany and their was a closeup picture of the faint ink stamp that is on the knife. As Ken pointed out it could be easily removed if deception was the goal. It is certainly not a goal with my sales.
The other term that was mentioned was the "No Case" term. I always say include a" /box" when I use the term. Surprisingly if you sell a lot of knives on eBay, I have sold over 17,000, some people will ask the question "DOES IT COME WITH THE ORIGINAL CASE AND PAPERWORK. Sometimes they will even ask that question about knives that never came with a case or box. I agree that it is possible that the saying does get a seller more views.
Thanks again Dimitri and Ken for the support and I will be glad to field any questions at any time.

Tom
Tom,
As I had said, I do appreciate your candor and honesty. I again, place an apology to you. In no means what so ever was I questioning your integrity. I was unfamiliar with the knife, I was asking the validity of the knife.
I appreciate your rationale and explanation, and I hope you can excuse my ignorance. I will gladly remove the post if you wish.
You have to be trusted by the people that lie to you. So that when they turn their backs on you, You'll get the chance to put the knife in….

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Re: Me thinks….

Post by olderdogs1 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:47 pm

Whitneyrifle wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:38 pm
olderdogs1 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:43 pm
Miller Bro's wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:15 am


I second what Ken has said above ::tu::

Tom does not sell counterfeit knives and if something is wrong he will correct it.
I appreciate the support Dimitri and Ken, it means a lot. As Dimitri said if something is wrong I will correct it and I have no interest in selling a knife that is not right. I personally don't feel the listing was misleading as the knife was listed as a modern knife and was not included with my vintage listings. GEC makes a fine knife and a lot of them are stamped NORTHFIELD and TIDIOUTE CUTLERY. People are aware that they are not vintage knives produced in the early 1900's. People are of course entitled to their opinion.
I do want to cover a couple of things that were mentioned in a couple of the posts. It was suggested by one poster that if the knife was made in Germany the title should say so. Unfortunately eBay limits the number of characters you can have in the title. My listing description stated that the knife was produced in Germany and their was a closeup picture of the faint ink stamp that is on the knife. As Ken pointed out it could be easily removed if deception was the goal. It is certainly not a goal with my sales.
The other term that was mentioned was the "No Case" term. I always say include a" /box" when I use the term. Surprisingly if you sell a lot of knives on eBay, I have sold over 17,000, some people will ask the question "DOES IT COME WITH THE ORIGINAL CASE AND PAPERWORK. Sometimes they will even ask that question about knives that never came with a case or box. I agree that it is possible that the saying does get a seller more views.
Thanks again Dimitri and Ken for the support and I will be glad to field any questions at any time.

Tom
Tom,
As I had said, I do appreciate your candor and honesty. I again, place an apology to you. In no means what so ever was I questioning your integrity. I was unfamiliar with the knife, I was asking the validity of the knife.
I appreciate your rationale and explanation, and I hope you can excuse my ignorance. I will gladly remove the post if you wish.
You can leave it as is. We are all still learning in this knife game. I appreciate your last comment a lot and if I can ever help you in any way, feel free to call on me.

Thanks,

Tom

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