Tonight I saw an offering on fleabay that touched one of my hot buttons.
That hot button is the offering of rehandled knives in a manner that either states or implies that the item is in its original factory configuration, or words to that effect.
Rehandling of knives is not a bad thing. That saves an old knife and makes its utility continue. What chaps the south end of my north bound mule is the misleading "stories" that accompany these knives.
Our good old Orvet puts his "brand" on the knives he restores. I really like that touch.
Here's a little tutorial on what to look for in rehandled Westerns. If you see a Western with brightly colored plastic handles, or a plastic handle described as "snakeskin" or "any-color marbled" or "any-color Delrin" or some other fancy descriptor, expect it to have been rehandled and look for the tells that it has been rehandled - wrong time frame stamp, model number in the wrong place, model that never had plastic handles advertised, and the big one - fuzzy picture.
If the color is anything other than a dullish red, ivory, green, orange or yellow think rehandle. Now the Western plastic can be vibrant, but it is not really going to shine unless someone smeared vaseline on it. The exception to this is blue. A very, very, very few were made with blue. The few pre-WW2 blue handled 48A equivalents had a plastic that faded quickly into a pale green sometime descibed as "seafoam". If it is any other blue at all, check the stamps, pommel pins, any model numbers being present. There will NOT be any model numbers of any ilk on a real blue.
Remember what Bernard Levine has always said -
"Read the knife, not the story."
The following is an offering on fleabay for a "1950s hatchet/knife combo" and is advertised as
"1950's~WESTERN~ORANGE DELRIN L66 HUNTING KNIFE & CAMP AXE COMBO w/ORIG. SHEATHS~"
The following pictures are included to emphasize the bones I'm picking.
Here's the same image with pitting on the pommel pointed out -
Here's my first beef with it - 1950s and Delrin in the same statement. Delrin did not become commercially available until 1961. It will not be on a 1950s anything. Period.
The second beef is the implication that the orange Delrin is factory - wrong color orange for Western knives. I can't explain it with words, but when you've seen the real Western orange, the falsies leap out. Here's a 1948ishs orange 48BAP, Note the differences in color, hue and tone.
Compare it with this knife and hatchet handle set --
Now, you might say, "Hey, Wayne, maybe that's just a difference in cameras, monitors, phase of the moon..." whatever excuse to claim these to be original.
Well, here's a picture from the same seller of a different knife with the same color orange plastic - an L46-6. It says so, right on the pile side ricasso.
And a close-up of the pile side ricasso --
So if a knife that left the factory with a leather handle, a knife model that was NEVER advertised as having a plastic handle of ANY color now has a plastic handle of the same color material, meaning it is an out and out rehandle job. That means ANY KNIFE by the seller with this material is a rehandled knife.
Next,
"The sheaths are originals but the little strap appears replaced, otherwise the sheaths are still in near excellent condition with some storage wear and a minor little tear in the hammer end of the axe sheath."
Sorry, but I see water damage on the knife sheath, overall staining, significant wear near the throat where the guard rubbed a BUNCH. The back of the mask is ragged. The sheaths probably are early 1950s based on the type of oak leaf and acorn pattern and they did begin life a darker brown than "bare leather", but they are not in "excellent condition".
The next pictures have my take on examining the knives' conditions and evaluation of the "flaws" of this being an original set. The seller does states
"They also are not an exact matching pair due to the different spacer patterns and tang marks. "
But all the implications are they are both from the 1950s and are a combo pair.
I could understand a supposition that a 1955 pile side ricasso stamped L66 MAY, just MAY have slipped out the door with a 1950 L10 hatchet that was found hiding in a back room 2 or 3 years after the last run was made, but never a 1967 to 1972 L66. One that would have also had a leather handle. That stretches the imagination way passed the breaking point into big bang black hole explosion credulity.
And other flaws indicating rehandling, derusting, de-patina-ing and polishing...
A bent guard usually implies pretty rough usage
If it looks like a skunk, smells like a skunk and sprays like a skunk, it dang sure isn't a squirrel.
ps - If it is not an 28, 48, 58 or 68 pattern, it did not come as a true factory installed plastic handle knife. If it is not a pattern 10 style hatchet in red or ivory, it did not come from the factory that way. And a hatchet stamped L10 is NOT going to have come out of the factory sporting plastic. No 66, 36, 39, 40, 46-5,46-6 or 46-8 was ever made for wholesale distribution/retail sale in plastic until the late Coleman perion faux stag Delrin handled W46-8s, No clue as to why they did that.
There is always the off chance that a knife or hatchet was a lunch box special that some Western employee squirreled out the door, but not likely for the vast majority of the alledged offerings. Look at the color - the real things are different.
Rehandled knives marketed as originals.
- zzyzzogeton
- Posts: 1725
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 pm
- Location: In the Heart of Texas on the Blackland Prairie
Re: Rehandled knives marketed as originals.
I am totally in agreement with you, and everything you said about these examples is 100% on point. As an amateur knife "mechanic" and a frequent buyer and seller on fleabay (and here) I make every effort to clearly point out everything that I have done to a knife I am selling, and am particularly careful about clearly pointing out every aspect or part that did not come with the knife from the factory. Unfortunately, I encounter a LOT of sellers who could care less about full disclosure. I've given up on contacting sellers about suspicious or even blatantly incorrect aspects of their knife auctions. And Fleabay seems to be more interested in taking down my auctions because one of their "experts" thinks that an ordinary shield is a release button, signifying that it's an automatic knife!
"Better to do something imperfectly, than to do nothing flawlessly." ~ Robert H. Schuller
Herb
Herb
Re: Rehandled knives marketed as originals.
Yeah Wayne, the two guys in CO making/selling these things make me crazy! I and some other fixed blade collectors have contacted them complaining they should not advertise their goods as mint knives but they just don't care. What frosts me is that they get hundreds of dollars apiece for these made up knives.
Re: Rehandled knives marketed as originals.
Thanks for the thorough explanation and pictures Wayne.
Bob
Bob
- Mumbleypeg
- Gold Tier
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Re: Rehandled knives marketed as originals.
Wayne, good job explaining and showing folks what to look for. Hopeful that your tutorial will help,some avoid buying a fake “collectable”.
I’ve come to the conclusion that not only do many sellers not care that they’re selling fakes, many buyers do not care that they are buying a fake either. As evidenced by the ebay listings wherein the seller plainly states the item is a fake, or they have been told it is probably a fake, etc. Yet the bids continue to roll in, driving up the price.
And the ultimate - the seller who says “I know it’s a fake but I offer a 14 day return policy, so if a buyer doesn’t like it they can return it. Therefore I am not dishonest.”
Ken
I’ve come to the conclusion that not only do many sellers not care that they’re selling fakes, many buyers do not care that they are buying a fake either. As evidenced by the ebay listings wherein the seller plainly states the item is a fake, or they have been told it is probably a fake, etc. Yet the bids continue to roll in, driving up the price.
And the ultimate - the seller who says “I know it’s a fake but I offer a 14 day return policy, so if a buyer doesn’t like it they can return it. Therefore I am not dishonest.”
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
- Madmarco
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Re: Rehandled knives marketed as originals.
Wow, great tutorial Wayne! I should ask you to come along next time I want to buy a knife so you can scrutinize it before I buy! Very informative, thx!