Western shenanigans

In 1911, H. N. Platts, was able to draw on his extensive friendships and family connections in the cutlery world to start Western States Cutlery and Manufacturing of Boulder Colorado. At first only a jobbing business, by 1920 construction and machinery purchases were underway to begin manufacture of knives. Through name changes--to Western States Cutlery Co. in 1953, then Western Cutlery Co. in 1956--and moves first across town and later to Longmont Colorado, the company stayed under the leadership of the Platt family until 1984. In that year, the company was sold to Coleman, becoming Coleman-Western. Eventually purchased by Camillus in 1991, Western continued until Camillus expired in 2007.
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tongueriver
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Western shenanigans

Post by tongueriver »

This seller has been pushing these colored-handle Westerns for some years now. I am sure that he is just the dealer or front man. At some point someone ended up with a very large amount of blades and parts from Western. A manufacturer was no doubt contacted to make up a lot of different colored handles for many patterns. I don't know if the plastic is Delrin or some other plastic, perhaps an acrylic. The originals were some sort of celluloid and are spendy these days. Nothing wrong with selling customized knives... unless they are misrepresented as originals. He knows perfectly well that they are nothing of the kind but somehow has not mentioned that. These knives are eagerly bought up by buyers who don't suspect a thing. And they are paying big money thinking that they are getting the real deal from the 1950s. A lot of these criminal sellers on Ebay know exactly what they are up to and this is felony fraud subject to interstate commerce rules. The FBI or any other enforcement agency is not about to fool around with these small fry, and Ebay would never do a thing unless the complaints started coming in by the hundreds or thousands. And, of course, that is not going to happen. Just thought Western afficionados would like to know. Here is one of them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353519831914?h ... Swtu5gt9s0
Gunsil
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by Gunsil »

Cal, I think this guy has only recently started selling the fake colored handles, there are two other guys who have been selling a lot more of them for longer, and one may be the source. I have e-mailed both of them and they just say the knives are "collector" knives and they have many happy customers. The seller here also sells a lot of cleaned/buffed knives as mint, some folks just have few scruples. I think hundreds have been sold already, many with fancy acrylic replacement handles. I have a hard time understanding why all the buyers keep buying them, but every one sells and usually for more than any other Western hunter is worth. Go figure!!

This guy, trader ned's I think is the source, at least he sells the most of them. https://ebay.us/i0kFDW the other guy's ebay name is p fifty one or something like that, all located in CO and all selling modern replaced handle knives as original.
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Eye Brand Man
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by Eye Brand Man »

I don't know if it's the same seller or not, but I used to see western fixed blades with that wacky multi color/ pearl acrylic handles selling for big money like 300.00 range all the time. It was always amazing to me what people were willing to pay for them. Of course know where in the listing was there mention of them being original or not. Of course they weren't but it made me wonder if people thought they were with the kind of money they were spending.

The seller always had plenty listed for sale. The knives always looked brand new. They were probably new old stock blades that he was handling in acrylic. Normally always had the correct factory sheath to go with them too. Seller must have worked for western or had the chance at buying a large stock of unfinished knives and sheaths.
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edge213
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by edge213 »

Gunsil wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:56 pm Cal, I think this guy has only recently started selling the fake colored handles, there are two other guys who have been selling a lot more of them for longer, and one may be the source. I have e-mailed both of them and they just say the knives are "collector" knives and they have many happy customers. The seller here also sells a lot of cleaned/buffed knives as mint, some folks just have few scruples. I think hundreds have been sold already, many with fancy acrylic replacement handles. I have a hard time understanding why all the buyers keep buying them, but every one sells and usually for more than any other Western hunter is worth. Go figure!!

This guy, trader ned's I think is the source, at least he sells the most of them. https://ebay.us/i0kFDW the other guy's ebay name is p fifty one or something like that, all located in CO and all selling modern replaced handle knives as original.
2 questions.
Didn't Western make colored handles in celluloid?
What colors did they originally make?
Seems to me, red, blue, orange and white.
David
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tongueriver
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by tongueriver »

Western called their fixed blade celluloid 'Tenite' in the 1950 catalog. During the 1950s I think colors at least sometimes but not always included red, orange, ivory, yellow, and rarely, blue and green. A bit later than this page, patterns were prefixed with a letter "P." You should be able to read the print if you click again.
puz004.jpg
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tongueriver
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by tongueriver »

Eye Brand Man wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:00 pm I don't know if it's the same seller or not, but I used to see western fixed blades with that wacky multi color/ pearl acrylic handles selling for big money like 300.00 range all the time. It was always amazing to me what people were willing to pay for them. Of course know where in the listing was there mention of them being original or not. Of course they weren't but it made me wonder if people thought they were with the kind of money they were spending.

The seller always had plenty listed for sale. The knives always looked brand new. They were probably new old stock blades that he was handling in acrylic. Normally always had the correct factory sheath to go with them too. Seller must have worked for western or had the chance at buying a large stock of unfinished knives and sheaths.
This guy might not be the one you are thinking of. He sometimes does acrylic handles and sometimes semi-precious stone. He is legitimate and a nice guy.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164874979303?h ... Swo~Bgt~tB
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edge213
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by edge213 »

tongueriver wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:26 pm Western called their fixed blade celluloid 'Tenite' in the 1950 catalog. During the 1950s I think colors at least sometimes but not always included red, orange, ivory, and rarely, blue and green. A bit later than this page, patterns were prefixed with a letter "P." You should be able to read the print if you click again.
puz004.jpg
Cool ad.
I have that axe-hunter combo with leather .
David
"Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife" Meat Loaf
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Eye Brand Man
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by Eye Brand Man »

tongueriver wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:34 pm
Eye Brand Man wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:00 pm I don't know if it's the same seller or not, but I used to see western fixed blades with that wacky multi color/ pearl acrylic handles selling for big money like 300.00 range all the time. It was always amazing to me what people were willing to pay for them. Of course know where in the listing was there mention of them being original or not. Of course they weren't but it made me wonder if people thought they were with the kind of money they were spending.

The seller always had plenty listed for sale. The knives always looked brand new. They were probably new old stock blades that he was handling in acrylic. Normally always had the correct factory sheath to go with them too. Seller must have worked for western or had the chance at buying a large stock of unfinished knives and sheaths.
This guy might not be the one you are thinking of. He sometimes does acrylic handles and sometimes semi-precious stone. He is legitimate and a nice guy.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164874979303?h ... Swo~Bgt~tB
This guy is legit. He's very upfront about it being custom. The seller I was thinking of is trader ned that Gene posted.
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btrwtr
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by btrwtr »

This has been going on for some time. Several sellers have been selling these with no mention of the knives being reworked with non original parts.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55976&hilit=western
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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by zzyzzogeton »

I've been working on a "tutorial" on identifying "real" Western colored plastic handled B&Ts. I almost have it done. Still assembling the pictures and need to proof read it a few more times. Seems like every time I reread it, I catch an error or misspelling.

Not gonna do like I did on the W49 document where I thought I had time to get the pictures edited in and didn't know about the time limit on doing that.
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tongueriver
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Re: Western shenanigans

Post by tongueriver »

zzyzzogeton wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:27 pm I've been working on a "tutorial" on identifying "real" Western colored plastic handled B&Ts. I almost have it done. Still assembling the pictures and need to proof read it a few more times. Seems like every time I reread it, I catch an error or misspelling.

Not gonna do like I did on the W49 document where I thought I had time to get the pictures edited in and didn't know about the time limit on doing that.
That will be nice to see, ZZ; reading and archiving that information will be the closest I come to owning one of those plastic handled early Western knives. For the money that they go for I would rather look at some of their REALLY NICE stag and bone hunting knives.
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