Western States Peanut
Western States Peanut
Earlier this week I did some work for people that were getting ready to put there decessed grandmothers house up for sale. They told me that the week before they hired an appraiser to go through her belongings to identify what was of value and what was run of the mill. It was at this point that I asked if grandma had any old pocket knives, they told me she only had one and I asked to see it. The woman left for a moment and came back with this pretty little butter and molasses celluloid peanut. When I first looked at it I new that it was old but I couldn't make out the tang stamp, I also knew I was in love but I kept that info to my self. I offered to buy the knife out right but they said that they wouldn't sell anything until the intire family could look over the items and take what they wanted. What can you do? I did know however that I would be coming back to finish up over the weekend. Well to make a long story short I came back to finish the locks on the kitchen door the lady slipped the knife in my pocket and I said Thank You!!!
- zzyzzogeton
- Posts: 1717
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Re: Western States Peanut
What is the OAL and what is the length of each blade when opened?
Can't guarantee squat as I'm more into FBs, but I might be able to dig out the model number on that one.
At first glance, it will fall into the range of either 1936 to 1940 or 1941 to 1942.
Most of Western's pocket knives were 3 or 4 blade models. And most of the 2 blade models had a single blade on each end, as opposed to both blades being on the same end.
Can't guarantee squat as I'm more into FBs, but I might be able to dig out the model number on that one.
At first glance, it will fall into the range of either 1936 to 1940 or 1941 to 1942.
Most of Western's pocket knives were 3 or 4 blade models. And most of the 2 blade models had a single blade on each end, as opposed to both blades being on the same end.
Re: Western States Peanut
The oal with main blade is 5", 4 3/8" with secondary blade. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Re: Western States Peanut
I may have answered that wrong, the knife is 2 3/4" closed, the master blade is 2 1/4" and the small blade is 1 1/2".
- zzyzzogeton
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 pm
- Location: In the Heart of Texas on the Blackland Prairie
Re: Western States Peanut
Prior to 1954, Western pocket knife model numbers have 3 components - handle material, number of blades, pattern number.
With the Western States stamp, that puts it before WW2. So, between 1919 and 1941, since Western did not start manufacturing their own knives until 1919 (after WW1). Prior to that all Western knives were made back east or in Germany. More about the early history of Western in a different thread.
Western's "rules" were - 1st digit = handle material, 2nd digit = # of blades, 3rd and 4th digits = pattern number. Easy enough, right?
Well, as with every set of rules, there are exceptions. Western would add letters or numbers at either end of a model number to indicate modifications.
And then there are the "exceptions to the exceptions" that don't even fit into the "standard exceptions".
From comparing your pictures and measurements to The Knife Makers Who Went West (TKMWWW) catalog reprint pages, I believe that yours is either a 12229 or it is an A229, both of which were produced from 1940 to 1941.
This is based on the OAL closed length - 2-3/4", the number of blades - 2, and the blade options (main a clip and secondary a pen with clip in front of pen as viewed from the mark side).
Now for the thought process getting to my determinations. Handle material = 12???? There is no 12 in the Western chart. Only 2 through 8. So let's work backwards -229 = 2 blades, of different types. (Yes, Western would make knives that had 2, 3 and even 4 of the same blades.)
From there, there are 6 possibilities -
- 1936 to 1940 had 1 version --
-- the 13229 which shows up in the 1936 catalog reprints. The 13229 is described as "Overall 2-3/4" Made in several different kinds of handles as shown in price list." The example in TKMWWW only depicts a composition swirl handle. "Composition" is Western speak for "celluloid of some sort".
I eliminated this model as being yours due to the TKMWWW picture showing the knife WITHOUT a shield. No shield = not a 13229.
The 1941 catalog reprints show 5 229 knives, --
-- the 12229, "Overall size - 2-3/4". Composition pearl handles. Agate composition handles - No. A229. Goldstone composition handles - No. 229gs."
-- the 15229C -"Overall size -2-3/4". Genuine buck-horn handles. Also Agate composition handles - No. A229C."
-- the 16229 - "Overall size - 2-3/4". Bone stag handles."
These models ALL show an "oblong oval" type shield. The 15229C and 16229 can be readily eliminated from consideration, as can the 229gs. The goldstone composition was a glittery kind of celluloid and "kinda goldish colored".
So we are down to the two I mentioned. Neither description matches your pictures, but going back to the description of the 13229, which specified "several different kinds of handles", I can see a "butter and molasses" variation occurring even in the 1940 knives. Pictures of the "Agate composition" on various 3 blade Westerns from the 1940 catalog, while in B&W, do seem to hint at "butter and molasses" swirls, but NONE of the agate patterns depict the solid stripe down the middle of your handles.
So a 229 of some sort from 1940 to 1941, probably a 12229 or an A229.
With the Western States stamp, that puts it before WW2. So, between 1919 and 1941, since Western did not start manufacturing their own knives until 1919 (after WW1). Prior to that all Western knives were made back east or in Germany. More about the early history of Western in a different thread.
Western's "rules" were - 1st digit = handle material, 2nd digit = # of blades, 3rd and 4th digits = pattern number. Easy enough, right?
Well, as with every set of rules, there are exceptions. Western would add letters or numbers at either end of a model number to indicate modifications.
And then there are the "exceptions to the exceptions" that don't even fit into the "standard exceptions".
From comparing your pictures and measurements to The Knife Makers Who Went West (TKMWWW) catalog reprint pages, I believe that yours is either a 12229 or it is an A229, both of which were produced from 1940 to 1941.
This is based on the OAL closed length - 2-3/4", the number of blades - 2, and the blade options (main a clip and secondary a pen with clip in front of pen as viewed from the mark side).
Now for the thought process getting to my determinations. Handle material = 12???? There is no 12 in the Western chart. Only 2 through 8. So let's work backwards -229 = 2 blades, of different types. (Yes, Western would make knives that had 2, 3 and even 4 of the same blades.)
From there, there are 6 possibilities -
- 1936 to 1940 had 1 version --
-- the 13229 which shows up in the 1936 catalog reprints. The 13229 is described as "Overall 2-3/4" Made in several different kinds of handles as shown in price list." The example in TKMWWW only depicts a composition swirl handle. "Composition" is Western speak for "celluloid of some sort".
I eliminated this model as being yours due to the TKMWWW picture showing the knife WITHOUT a shield. No shield = not a 13229.
The 1941 catalog reprints show 5 229 knives, --
-- the 12229, "Overall size - 2-3/4". Composition pearl handles. Agate composition handles - No. A229. Goldstone composition handles - No. 229gs."
-- the 15229C -"Overall size -2-3/4". Genuine buck-horn handles. Also Agate composition handles - No. A229C."
-- the 16229 - "Overall size - 2-3/4". Bone stag handles."
These models ALL show an "oblong oval" type shield. The 15229C and 16229 can be readily eliminated from consideration, as can the 229gs. The goldstone composition was a glittery kind of celluloid and "kinda goldish colored".
So we are down to the two I mentioned. Neither description matches your pictures, but going back to the description of the 13229, which specified "several different kinds of handles", I can see a "butter and molasses" variation occurring even in the 1940 knives. Pictures of the "Agate composition" on various 3 blade Westerns from the 1940 catalog, while in B&W, do seem to hint at "butter and molasses" swirls, but NONE of the agate patterns depict the solid stripe down the middle of your handles.
So a 229 of some sort from 1940 to 1941, probably a 12229 or an A229.
Re: Western States Peanut
Thanks for the great info, I owe you one!
Re: Western States Peanut
Great story and nice info to have.
Thanks, Magoo
Thanks, Magoo
- tongueriver
- Posts: 6830
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm
Re: Western States Peanut
This is what they meant by agate composition:zzyzzogeton wrote: Pictures of the "Agate composition" on various 3 blade Westerns from the 1940 catalog, while in B&W, do seem to hint at "butter and molasses" swirls, but NONE of the agate patterns depict the solid stripe down the middle of your handles.
- zzyzzogeton
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 pm
- Location: In the Heart of Texas on the Blackland Prairie
Re: Western States Peanut
Cal,
That's SHOWS what I meant by the B&W pics in TKMWWW looking like they might have a butter & molasses swirl to the handles.
As they say - a picture is worth a thousand words.
That's SHOWS what I meant by the B&W pics in TKMWWW looking like they might have a butter & molasses swirl to the handles.
As they say - a picture is worth a thousand words.