Western Tang Stamps

In 1911, H. N. Platts, was able to draw on his extensive friendships and family connections in the cutlery world to start Western States Cutlery and Manufacturing of Boulder Colorado. At first only a jobbing business, by 1920 construction and machinery purchases were underway to begin manufacture of knives. Through name changes--to Western States Cutlery Co. in 1953, then Western Cutlery Co. in 1956--and moves first across town and later to Longmont Colorado, the company stayed under the leadership of the Platt family until 1984. In that year, the company was sold to Coleman, becoming Coleman-Western. Eventually purchased by Camillus in 1991, Western continued until Camillus expired in 2007.
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tongueriver
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by tongueriver »

I believe you will find that nice hunting knife to be an L-46-6 (pattern 46, six inch blade, L for 'leather stacked handle). Sold as this consumer variation after WWII and on into the 60s and maybe the 70s. It was sold in a similar form in the 1930s, then in an altered form as a military knife during the war, with three different blade lengths. Your sheath appears to be original. Very nice.
Mudrigg
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Mudrigg »

Great information. Thank you! Would you have an approximate value on something like this?
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tongueriver
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by tongueriver »

Mudrigg wrote: Would you have an approximate value on something like this?
Zero to fifty dollars is my guess. Not a hot item but a wonderful user or you could befriend a boy (or girl). There are tens of thousands of leather stacked handles Westerns on ebay over the years. They are mostly very slow. As some other forumites would attest, they have very good steel.
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Colonel26
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Colonel26 »

Very nice old Western, an one of my favorite Western fixed blades.

TR hit the nail on the head. Looking at eBay completed listings isnyojr best bet for finding the value. Western fixed blade values are hard for me to pin down. Sometimes they go for a pitance, often for what I think are stupid prices, and many times in the middle.

I guess it depends on who's wanting it on a particular day.
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Mudrigg »

Perfect. Thanks for the info. I'm going to a gun range swap meet this week and if I can get 40-50 on it it sounds like that might be a good price for it. If not I'll just pack it away for another 20 years or until I go camping. 8-)
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey Guys, Any info will be appreciated as I am looking for some answers.
I dont know the History very well between Western & Case and I am NOT a Western Expert. I bought this knife and thought it was a Western States knife. I opened the master blade and seen it said "Westaco" stamped,,,I said oh well thats cool. I then opened the small blade and Wow what a surprise,,, it says Standard knife Co. I immediately went to my Goins book to see a reference. I did find that Standard knife Co knives were made by Different company's according to Goins. I am hoping someone can shed some light for me.
Kind Regards & Thanks in advance
Mark
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Steve1973
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Steve1973 »

Here is mine, I inherited it from my grandfather it was something he used everyday. Dont know much about it or what year it is.
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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by zzyzzogeton »

With the model number (L36) stamped into the pile side ricasso, this puts your knife between as being made between 1955 and 1967.

1955 was the first year Western stamped model numbers on the knives. In 1968, all model numbers shifted to the guards.

A couple of members here on AAPK have L39s that are guard marked that they state they received via S&H Green Stamps in the late 50s.
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jxr1197
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by jxr1197 »

I came here hoping to date the tang stamp of a Westaco that came to me by way of a pile-o-knives purchase but there's no mention of it here or in Goins. Leaving a pic for posterity -
Westaco.jpg
- Jason
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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by zzyzzogeton »

The WESTACO line initially shows up in the 1931 catalogs as a lower cost alternative to the Western States line of knives. One of those Great Depression Era things. The knives were made of the same materials and with the same care by the same people, just marketed differently and at a lower price.

TKMWWW states that the WESTACO line came out and then Mr. Platts developed the double/split tang fixed blade construction method. Since he applied for the patent in 1931, this would imply that the WESTACO line started maybe as early as 1928 to 1930. I've never seen any advertising from that era to corroborate that thought, though.

So, generally, I put these as 1931 to 1941 BUT........ your's has a "MADE IN USA" line under the WESTACO stamp. One of my rules of thumb that I use with Westerns is that MADE IN USA usually means "made after WW2". The advertising available for the early post-war period is slim. There was a lot of stuff made between 1945 and 1950, but no catalogs from that era have surfaced. Maybe they never had one, just flyers.

I never ran across an ad for WESTACO knives in the outdoors/sporting magazines that I researched through on the 1930s and 1940s, but if the WESTACO line was the "cheaper" line, the methods of advertising that line would have been via cheaper methods than magazine ads.

So, by known information, yours is 1931 to 1941, but it could be a post-war late 1945 to 1949 knife with that MADE IN USA stamp.

How about starting a new WESTACO knives thread with full pictures of yours. Maybe we can figure out if yours is a 1931-1935 or a 1936-1941 based on handles & blade(s) shape/configuration.
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jxr1197
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by jxr1197 »

zzyzzogeton wrote:The WESTACO line initially shows up in the 1931 catalogs as a lower cost alternative to the Western States line of knives. One of those Great Depression Era things. The knives were made of the same materials and with the same care by the same people, just marketed differently and at a lower price.

TKMWWW states that the WESTACO line came out and then Mr. Platts developed the double/split tang fixed blade construction method. Since he applied for the patent in 1931, this would imply that the WESTACO line started maybe as early as 1928 to 1930. I've never seen any advertising from that era to corroborate that thought, though.

So, generally, I put these as 1931 to 1941 BUT........ your's has a "MADE IN USA" line under the WESTACO stamp. One of my rules of thumb that I use with Westerns is that MADE IN USA usually means "made after WW2". The advertising available for the early post-war period is slim. There was a lot of stuff made between 1945 and 1950, but no catalogs from that era have surfaced. Maybe they never had one, just flyers.

I never ran across an ad for WESTACO knives in the outdoors/sporting magazines that I researched through on the 1930s and 1940s, but if the WESTACO line was the "cheaper" line, the methods of advertising that line would have been via cheaper methods than magazine ads.

So, by known information, yours is 1931 to 1941, but it could be a post-war late 1945 to 1949 knife with that MADE IN USA stamp.

How about starting a new WESTACO knives thread with full pictures of yours. Maybe we can figure out if yours is a 1931-1935 or a 1936-1941 based on handles & blade(s) shape/configuration.

zzyzzogeton - thank you for such a wonderfully detailed reply ::tu:: I will take some pics of the knife later and start that new thread.
- Jason
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by knifegnome »

Just picked up this Western Black Beauty, F66 stamped on the back of the blade, what is the date range of this knife? 1950's -60's ?
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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by zzyzzogeton »

1954/1955 at the earliest, since that is when Western started putting moidel numbers on their knives. The exact date is hard to pin down because they didn't do it on every model at the exact same time - they had older, unmarked inventory to move before they did another run.

The latest it was made (not sold) would be 1967, as they moved the model stamp to the guard in late 1967/1968, again varying by model. Some model numbers NEVER moved to the guard - the L46-8, and later the W46-8 maintained pile side model numbers through the end of the Coleman-Western era. After Camillus bought the company, all bifurcated tang construction ceased and the W46-8 stamp moved to the mark side.
TheDadInMontana
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by TheDadInMontana »

Hello I’m looking for information on this western F 39 hunting knife. It was handed down to me from my grandfather. I’m not sure if he was the first owner and original purchaser but I am assuming he was. Also, wondering about the sheath it looks dated with the knife. If anybody could please help me out with any information on this knife it would be appreciated.
Stamp is as follows
Western
Boulder colo
USA
In case you can’t see the pictures clearly

Thank you kindly,
From Montana
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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by zzyzzogeton »

1968 to 1972 for sure.

Guard stamped model numbers began in 1967 for some models (W49 for sure) and by 1968 for all, for sure.

Reference to BOULDER, COLO. in the stamp ended in 1972.
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by TheDadInMontana »

Thank you
Thomasg
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

Great thread! How about some stamps on non knife items? Here are 3 of mine.
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Thomasg
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

Robert Mayokok scrimshaw .
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

My only western states that still has the blade etching remaining .
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

Series 99 ( B). Western states logo on handle .No tang stamps on blade .
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

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tygr wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:08 pm I'm brand new to the forums and I'd love it if someone could help me identify my Western knives; age, model, style, etc. I really know nothing about knives in general, so anything would be helpful.

I don't have an image of the imprint on the tangs right now, but I do know they say

WESTERN
Boulder, Colo
Pat'd Made in USA

Thanks in advance!
[/quote ]
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

Mossdancer wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:47 pm coffeecup :
Hi Jim, Although not a bowie interesting anyway. Nice stamp of a West-Cut. My question is it does not have the split tang. Is it before the patent or a newer example.
I don't know if it will help but I also gave a close up of the pommel rivet.
moss
Obviously I’m not coffecup : Jim .For 1 year only (1958) Western brought back the West -Cut tang stamping . The K 1 ,K2, K 3., K 5 and 645. .The k series knifes all had leather handles , single pin in the pommel , and non bifurcated tang construction .The K 1-3 knifes had a flat grind blades .The K 5 and 645 were both saber grind .The 645 had a plastic handle material .
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

1931-32 WEST -CUT.
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by zzyzzogeton »

Thomasg wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:09 am 1931-33. WEST -CUT.
Actually, a little tighter than that - 1931 - 1932.

1932 - 1933 would have been "PAT. PEND." on the pile side ricasso.

Then just "PATENTED" for a bit in 1933, before the actual patent number was issued and stamps made with the patent number.
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Re: Western Tang Stamps

Post by Thomasg »

zzyzzogeton wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:40 pm
Thomasg wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:09 am 1931-33. WEST -CUT.
Actually, a little tighter than that - 1931 - 1932.

1932 - 1933 would have been "PAT. PEND." on the pile side ricasso.

Then just "PATENTED" for a bit in 1933, before the actual patent number was issued and stamps made with the patent number.
. Thank you for your response .It will be a great reference point for western collectors for years to come .
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