USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

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Old Hunter
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USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by Old Hunter »

Not opening a debate, but interested in knowing if anyone has done, or read, a side by side comparison, feature by feature of a USA Buck 303 and a China Buck Trio to evaluate the actual differences of the two? Same could be asked for a comparison of a Schrade Old Timer 34OT (or another model) comparing the USA made version to the Chinese made version: steel, liners, handles, walk & talk, ability to take and hold an edge, fit and finish, long term durability, etc. - all those things we normally use to evaluate a knife model and brand. I am trying to figure out if a China made Buck is simply a knife from a random Chinese factory, with the hallowed Buck name applied, or if Buck is actually involved in the design, quality control, and manufacture of the knife. Same for the Schrade's.

Again, I am aware that the PLA targets the USA using the entire spectrum of Economic, Political, Psychological, and Military power and are an emerging threat to our global hegemony and will be for years to come as they attempt to dominate the Pacific Rim and increase their global power - I'll be glad to discuss that in another thread. Thanks, Old Hunter.
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Colonel26
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by Colonel26 »

OH, I think I can help you out here.

Disclaimer: I don't buy chicom knives or shotguns personally but I wound up with one anyway

Now that that's out of the way so I don't get flamed, let me explain. I don't know about the exact two that you mention, but I can tell you about the differences between the 301 USA stockman and the 371 China stockman. My wife gets me and the boys identical knives every year for Christmas. After hearing me talk about Buck quality and reading their company philosophy she decided that this past Christmas it would be Buck instead of Case as usual, fine by me. She didn't know that they had a chicom line so she bought what she thought was a good deal on a large stockman, the 371. I was a little disappointed at first, but since it was a gift and it was from the wife I decided to pack it edc for a while and give it an honest shakedown (I was curious too). Fit and finish were great, the springs were great, it was sharp right out of the box, and I couldn't knock the product at all. I carried it, I used it and it was a fine knife. The edge held up well for stainless and it resharpened easily. As a matter of fact it was so good that I thought the USA version had to be perfect so I bought one. Not so great.

The springs on the USA version were weak, the nail nicks looked like they had been chiseled out there were so many tool marks in them, and the blades just looked rough. I was far from impressed. Other than having slightly better metal the USA version was a looser all the way around. So I sent an email to Buck. I told them very politely point by point why the USA version was inferior to the chicom knife. I ended by telling them how saddened I was that this was the case that the USA version of their own knife wasn't as good as the communist Chinese version.

A couple of days later the head of US manufacturing for Buck emailed wanting to speak to me. I called him back and he addressed each issue point by point telling me where they had messed up on each item of my list. He had been to China to help set up Buck's plant over there and to teach them how to build knives to Buck's specifications. He told me that you are more likely to get an unsatisfactory US knife than a Chinese knife because they can afford to simply throw them away if they aren't perfect whereas in the US they cannot afford to do so unless they are really bad. He told me that he's seen them throw away knives that he would have to sell.

In the end they made me a new 301 special in his words just to show me what they could really build. He sent it to me no questions asked and simply told me to send him the bad one when I got around to it so they could study it. He also had me send in all my other Buck knives for their spa treatment at no charge too! My new 371 is one of the best quality knives I own and I don't even like stainless. It is an amazing knife.

Moral of the story, as a product the Chicom knife will probably be a very good one but not have as good metal as the USA version. The USA version will be a good knife as long as it wasn't made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. If you do get one that is unsatisfactory, Buck will make it right. If the chicom version had the metal in it that the USA version has, they'd put the USA version out of business. And that hurts me to say that.
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Old Hunter
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by Old Hunter »

Thanks Colonel26, that is exactly what I was looking for. Sad to hear, but what I wanted to know. OH
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by Colonel26 »

No problem sir. Glad I could help.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by glenn »

I think they put 420J2 in the china buck and 420HC in the USA one.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by ALLEN »

I will not take away the American Made..standard...but I noticed the same lately..The American finish is not like the older Bucks...I wish it wasn't so...THATS MY TWO CENTS ::handshake:: ::shrug:: ...Allen
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by xstuntman »

I have no use for J2 steel.
Originally the china Bucks were HC and changed to J2 very quietly. I'd guess that Bucks J2 is better than most though. I got stuck with a couple of J2 Bucks that were advertised as HC. ::doh::
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by glenn »

Smokey Mt catalog still advertise the china buck with 420HC ::dang:: .
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by bladeguy58 »

Hey there Colonel,
I just came upon this old post and what the rep from Buck told you confirmed what I've been saying for years and that is any country can make a good knife it just needs a good company name behind it. Companies like Buck and Kershaw need to be competitive and in today's market they need to be able to provide products to every income range, and to do that they had to go overseas. I think I even read someone here had posted even Case is doing that and it's probably what Schrade should have done. I think that as time goes by we're going to see some very good products come out of China because they will have reputable companies with people they can trust watching over them. I think that as American's we are viewed as very picky and rightfully so, we're used to the best so if other countries want to sell more product here they're going to up their quality to appeal to not only the low end buyer but also the higher end buyers. Hopefully I get some good feedback. ::pray::
Bladeguy~
Colonel26 wrote:OH, I think I can help you out here.

Disclaimer: I don't buy chicom knives or shotguns personally but I wound up with one anyway

Now that that's out of the way so I don't get flamed, let me explain. I don't know about the exact two that you mention, but I can tell you about the differences between the 301 USA stockman and the 371 China stockman. My wife gets me and the boys identical knives every year for Christmas. After hearing me talk about Buck quality and reading their company philosophy she decided that this past Christmas it would be Buck instead of Case as usual, fine by me. She didn't know that they had a chicom line so she bought what she thought was a good deal on a large stockman, the 371. I was a little disappointed at first, but since it was a gift and it was from the wife I decided to pack it edc for a while and give it an honest shakedown (I was curious too). Fit and finish were great, the springs were great, it was sharp right out of the box, and I couldn't knock the product at all. I carried it, I used it and it was a fine knife. The edge held up well for stainless and it resharpened easily. As a matter of fact it was so good that I thought the USA version had to be perfect so I bought one. Not so great.

The springs on the USA version were weak, the nail nicks looked like they had been chiseled out there were so many tool marks in them, and the blades just looked rough. I was far from impressed. Other than having slightly better metal the USA version was a looser all the way around. So I sent an email to Buck. I told them very politely point by point why the USA version was inferior to the chicom knife. I ended by telling them how saddened I was that this was the case that the USA version of their own knife wasn't as good as the communist Chinese version.

A couple of days later the head of US manufacturing for Buck emailed wanting to speak to me. I called him back and he addressed each issue point by point telling me where they had messed up on each item of my list. He had been to China to help set up Buck's plant over there and to teach them how to build knives to Buck's specifications. He told me that you are more likely to get an unsatisfactory US knife than a Chinese knife because they can afford to simply throw them away if they aren't perfect whereas in the US they cannot afford to do so unless they are really bad. He told me that he's seen them throw away knives that he would have to sell.

In the end they made me a new 301 special in his words just to show me what they could really build. He sent it to me no questions asked and simply told me to send him the bad one when I got around to it so they could study it. He also had me send in all my other Buck knives for their spa treatment at no charge too! My new 371 is one of the best quality knives I own and I don't even like stainless. It is an amazing knife.

Moral of the story, as a product the Chicom knife will probably be a very good one but not have as good metal as the USA version. The USA version will be a good knife as long as it wasn't made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. If you do get one that is unsatisfactory, Buck will make it right. If the chicom version had the metal in it that the USA version has, they'd put the USA version out of business. And that hurts me to say that.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by Capt. Farrel »

That´s a very interesting write-up Colonel! ::tu:: Sad but true! I just recently bought a Chinese folder for my son. He needed it for work and so I didn´t want to spend to much on it. So I bought a Sanrenmu and was simply blown away by the quality. It came at a mere Euro 25,-- and after you´ve had such a knife in your hands it´s hard to justify spending over Euro 100,--for a western made folder. ::hmm::
I will stick to US, British or German made knives for my collection because they have "soul" but I am not sure about my users..... ::facepalm::
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by Colonel26 »

I'm sure y'all are right. I've had a chicom Spyderco once that was a good little knife.

I have my reasons for not buying them, and don't plan to change my stance anytime soon. But I agree the Chinese are capable of building good pocket knives. They just build top the manufacturers specs. Unfortunately the manufacturers spec cheap junk most of the time.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by PigSticker »

There's some quality knives coming out of China--I just this week got a Marble's in the mail I bought on impulse because of the pattern--first Marble's Chinese I've ever bought and it won't be the last very nice quaity for less than $15.00 delivered--I don't have any Chinese Buck's but I'd bet most are pretty nice knives considering who's in charge of importing them--
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by zed6309 »

Ive had a 371 as my main user and its very well made and holds a edge,the backspring on the main blade is weaker than the other 2 blades but ok,just my 2 cents ::tu:: or 2 pence :D
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by camp9mm »

Shortly after Buck's China operation got going, the company posted a couple pics taken inside the plant. Looked as organized and spotlessly clean as a high tech electronics operation. Workers all in matching polo type shirts. Didn't look at all like a 100 year old USA factory.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by zed6309 »

camp9mm wrote:Shortly after Buck's China operation got going, the company posted a couple pics taken inside the plant. Looked as organized and spotlessly clean as a high tech electronics operation. Workers all in matching polo type shirts. Didn't look at all like a 100 year old USA factory.

Possibly it will look that way 100 years from now ::tu::
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by jerryd6818 »

Good to "see" ya 'Z'.



Using fit & finish as the yardstick, the best knife I've ever owned was made in the land which shall not be named.

To compare, I have a Case Tony Bose collaboration swayback jack. I have several Schatt & Morgans and several Great Easterns. THEY ARE ALL VERY GOOD. But they all fell just a hair short of that knife made in a Pacific rim country. I couldn't get past the country of origin. That ruined it for me so I traded it off. I guess that's a little hypocritical because I still own somewhere around a dozen knives made "over there".
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by btrwtr »

I too have a very hard time when it comes to buying Chinese products.
We have met the enemy and he is us (Pogo).

All in all quality comes down to material, craftsmanship/production and quality control. If you take away the good craftsmanship/production you can still get a good product but QC ends up culling too much to remain cost effective. If you loosen your QC because of too many culls you get a Buck 301 like Colonel26 did.

I have worked on some of the new Chinese Schrades that came apart like a cheap suit. Nothing like the old USA made counterparts.

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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by zed6309 »

Hi jerry ::tu:: i do lurk and learn :D i agree on older made knives being better made,i hope these days of quality arnt lost :(
Paul,

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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by deltaboy »

I have to brag on Buck I bought China made Buck Canoe in less than a week the scale one side just popped off in my pocket. I called Buck's customer service and they expressed mailed me a shipping box to my house and 3 days later I got it back in like New condition and razor sharp.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by knife7knut »

I find it interesting how history seems to rear it's ugly head every so often.
Back in the early 1890's when the tariffs against imported goods(mostly knives from what I can gather)the bad boys back then were the Germans with their shoddily made knives that seemed to break all the time and were poorly assembled. Thus began the golden age of American knife manufacturers.
Then in the 1930's when the Great Depression hit and the knife companies started to fall by the wayside and cheaper knives became the norm it was from mostly American companies;although there were plenty of German knives floating around as well.The Second World War put an end to many of them.
After World War II it became the Japanese and to a lesser extent the Chinese and Indians who were producing the less than desirable knives. The Germans were now the ones who were starting to produce quality knives but far from being inexpensive.The English knife industry was for all intents and purposes dead.
In the 1970's the Japanese really started to get their act together to produce some of the finest knives ever(and still do)although their prices have risen considerably. The few remaining American companies' quality had started to slip and really reached a zenith in the 1980's. Chinese knives were slowly but surely beginning to invade the market with low quality knives that began to rapidly improve through today. The few remaining American companies;while still producing quality knives for the most part ,cannot compete pricewise.
So where does that leave us today? For the collector of knives he is mostly sworn to acquiring knives made in Germany(not German branded knives made elsewhere)or the USA.England in my opinion does not have any major knife companies producing quality items.The USA companies mentioned in previous posts offer some fine knives(at commeasurate pricing)but still have some quality issues.
The Chinese knives as a whole(exceptions always)are of quality construction regarding fit and finish at very reasonable prices.Simple fact that you can choose to accept or ignore.
A good friend of mine once said of the quality of a particular item: "What is it you want;CHICKENS**T or CHICKEN SALAD?".You pays your money and you takes your choice.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by deltaboy »

zed6309 wrote:Ive had a 371 as my main user and its very well made and holds a edge,the backspring on the main blade is weaker than the other 2 blades but ok,just my 2 cents ::tu:: or 2 pence :D
I grabbed a,Jigged bone Wal Mart Special on Clearance , the one in the Display case looked and feeled great. But when I got home with mine I had to sent it the next day to Idaho it had proud pins and the sheep's foot was Gritty . After 4 weeks I got it back yesterday and it was Right.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by deltaboy »

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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by deltaboy »

After a month's + of carry it got a real weak Sheepsfoot blade and the 2 blades are soft compared to my USA Old made Buck 301. Now the blades are nice and sharp and are holding their edge well. ::tu:: But I sad to have such a nice looking stock man with weak walk n talk. ::facepalm::
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by deltaboy »

Still running it on the weekends in rotation with my Taylor made 8OT in Ironwoood stock man. The sheepfoot still soft on the Walk and Talk.
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Re: USA Buck 303 vs China Buck Trio, etc.

Post by deltaboy »

It seems to be improving with use. I wonder is the knife just too tight.
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