What's wrong with the knives made in China?

[knifetime]

I have came across one made in China that I forgot I had.
Rough Rider stag with blade etch, I like this knife a lot, for one it was from my wife for B-Day, 6 years ago I do believe, and it has some very thick stag with a cool etch. I have saw another one like my knife with a eagle on the blade.

[afishhunter]

Lets see....

The Chinese government owns the factories that employ communist slave labor
The Chinese government controls the Chines military and profits for things like knife sales end up going to the Chinese's Military
The Chinese Military routinely war games against US Military
The Chinese helped North Korea make Nuke weapons. China in turn helped, and is helping Iran develop theirs.
The American cutlery companies, that employ America workers are trying to survive...

There is more, but Phil said play nice

Lets see ... China has the fastest growing economy in the world ... you don't get that with state owned factories or slave/child labor.

Buck, Case, and other "American" cutlers sell knives they have made off shore - in China - to consumers in the USA.

I own seven or eight Rough Riders, and a Chinese made Schrade Uncle Henry LB7, and a Marbles rendition of the all steel Camillus "Demo" knife/Army utility knife.
Guess what? All have blades that hold an edge, all came sharp enough to shave with, the LB7 not only has the blade perfectly centered, but also has ZERO blade play side to side or up and down. None of the Rough Riders I own (seven slip joints, one lock back, so far) have any blade play, the slip joints have plenty of "walk and talk" (ditto the Marbles).

In today's global economy, pretty much everything made has parts/components made in China, if not fully made there. Your iPhone, for instance, may have been designed in the USA, and assembled in Mexico, but 99% of what is inside that phone was made in China.

"Buy American" today does not mean what it did in the 50's and 60's. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru ... all have plants un the US. You would be hard pressed to find a "foreign" car actually made in its country of origin these days; the obvious exception being the limited production Italian sports cars.

Oh well. Haters are gonna hate.

[afishhunter]

I like the Rough Riders. I became aware of them on another knife forum, checked them out, and ordered "a few".

So far, I have the large and small sunfish, (the large has become my favorite EDC slip joint) an electrician, two blade Barlow, a bone handled lock back, and a 5 blade stockman
All have zero blade play, have centered blades, and no blade strike on the liners or other blades. (I am a truck driver. The stockman was delivered after my last home time, so I've not seen it yet) fit and finish is impeccable, all were shaving sharp out of the box.

Rough Rider offers more patterns for general use than anyone else I know if, and do not make limited to 1,000 (give or take) "production" runs of over priced "safe queen" collector" knives, as Case and GEC seem to have a habit of.

[jerryd6818]

Lets see....

The Chinese government owns the factories that employ communist slave labor
The Chinese government controls the Chines military and profits for things like knife sales end up going to the Chinese's Military
The Chinese Military routinely war games against US Military
The Chinese helped North Korea make Nuke weapons. China in turn helped, and is helping Iran develop theirs.
The American cutlery companies, that employ America workers are trying to survive...

There is more, but Phil said play nice

Lets see ... China has the fastest growing economy in the world ... you don't get that with state owned factories or slave/child labor.

Buck, Case, and other "American" cutlers sell knives they have made off shore - in China - to consumers in the USA.

I own seven or eight Rough Riders, and a Chinese made Schrade Uncle Henry LB7, and a Marbles rendition of the all steel Camillus "Demo" knife/Army utility knife.
Guess what? All have blades that hold an edge, all came sharp enough to shave with, the LB7 not only has the blade perfectly centered, but also has ZERO blade play side to side or up and down. None of the Rough Riders I own (seven slip joints, one lock back, so far) have any blade play, the slip joints have plenty of "walk and talk" (ditto the Marbles).

In today's global economy, pretty much everything made has parts/components made in China, if not fully made there. Your iPhone, for instance, may have been designed in the USA, and assembled in Mexico, but 99% of what is inside that phone was made in China.

"Buy American" today does not mean what it did in the 50's and 60's. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru ... all have plants un the US. You would be hard pressed to find a "foreign" car actually made in its country of origin these days; the obvious exception being the limited production Italian sports cars.

Oh well. Haters are gonna hate.

Except for that first one (and I don't know the facts on it), there's nothing you said that isn't true. BUT true or not, I don't have to like it. My opinions are the one thing the "thought police" (U.S. Government) still doesn't control.

Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard.

[flangster]

Topics like these inevitably tweak folks' sensibilities. I have enjoyed the candid exchange of views above. You all are an articulate, thoughtful bunch. More importantly, the discussions have been civil -- which is a rare thing these days. So: a tip of the hat to the AAPK group.

In my case, the American-made knives that I have have an extra undefinable "something" that comes along with them. Maybe it comes down to pride that the craftsmen in my country are doing such a good job -- you know, a kind of "go team!" reaction. And: the folks at GEC make it easy to be proud of their craftsmanship and products. For me, that extra bit of pride is worth something in the cost -- I don't think I have ever found a GEC knife I liked and even checked the price of a competing Chinese product (or French, or German or Japanese for that matter).

I do own some Chinese-made knives: a stainless and aluminum Buck Flashpoint that I keep in my life jacket and an AG Russel Wharncliff Sowbelly I recently bought as an experiment. And I also carried a French Opinel for a couple of years before I discovered GEC and Queen Cutlery. Oh, and there is a Moki lockback somewhere in my drawer, which is Japanese-made, and a couple of German Bokers, as well as a Swiss Army Knife. As tools, they do what I need them to -- never had a complaint (other than the shape of the AG Russel, which doesn't fit my hand as well as I would like -- but I think, ironically, that results from decisions by the U.S. designer). My other 50 or so knives are American made -- although I know that "collection" makes me a piker compared to some of you folks.

However, we do live in an increasingly interconnected world, where the purchase of a hamburger at McDonalds, an oil change for my car, or the decision to repaint the front of the house have economic ripple effects that go across national boarders in a routine commercial way and about which I don't stress over too much. I will also say though that until recently, I had no collection of pocket knives at all -- I just wasn't sensitized to the question. Now that I have bought a "nicer class of knives", I don't think I will be able to go back to an impulse purchase a random pocket-knife off the display box next to the cash register at my local Agway. You all have ruined me! Or educated me. And for that I thank you all.

[junebug]

flangster.........I THINK I can help you... .....

send that MOKI & RUSSELL to me, ya know what they say.... OUTTA SIGHT OUTTA MIND!


always here ta help boys...hehehhehehe

[wazu013]

flangster,
TO AAPK It sounds like you have a nice collection going. Please post some pictures I'd love to see them and I think others would as well
wazu013

P.S. Forward that Moki to me. I'll see that junebug gets it

[Just Plain Dave]

I think the heat treat is a bit spotty on some of the China knives.
But if you get a good one they can take it for the most part.


They just lack soul. A few of mine are flawlessly executed but just don't feel like a US knife.

[Ruffinigold]

OK folks..........let's be nice.

Phil

10-4

Jeez ... that makes me hungry .

I don't have a problem with knives from China . Basically , I use them for work knives . Currently , I'm abusing the heck out of a Kershaw 1 ton for my work knife [ made in China ] . China is producing better knives than in the past , I mean I wouldn't even have considered one as a work knife because they were so poor a decade or more ago . I cant see collecting them but that's just me . I like old Keen Kutter and IXL pocket knives .. stuff like that , as far as collecting , which I don't do enough of .

[PigSticker]

I've bought a lot of China mades in the last ten years--thing is if you compare them to knives that sold for the same $ 20-30 years ago that are U.S. made they are nicer knives--only U.S. knives you could buy that cheap were Colonial's or Imperial's or Ideal's and we all know how those were made--but I collect them all that's part of collecting knives to me--years ago I bought only U.S.--since I quit working I buy the best I can afford from week to week and have more fun doing it & a lot of times it will be made in China--I own more weak springed old never carried never sharpened U.S. knives than any they look good on Ebay but there's a reason they never got carried it's because they was crap made & whoever owned them years ago didn't like them so put them away--My favorite China's are Spydreco & CRKT hard to beat for the $$

[Baykeeper]

I have a few foreign knives; Chinese, Japanese, Pakistani, English, Spanish. as well as many, (probably too many), USA knives. Like mentioned above earlier, Chinese manufacturing gets better and better, and they respond to consumers expectations more and more. I worked in the musical instrument business for years, and I watched Chinese instruments go from junk to some becoming collectible for their quality in the span of ten years, so they can and do know how to produce quality products....and yes, they also produce a lot of junk, granted. I can't say any of my Chinese knives are quite as good as my USA knives, but I like sharp things in general, so a good knife IS a good knife, wherever it came from, and I have some good Chinese-made slip joint knives. At this point in my life I want to keep and preserve the small collection of USA slip joints and fixed blades that I have. I want to eventually hand them down to my grandson, so my EDC is usually one kind of foreign knife or another, though I also always have a small Case, Buck, or Schrade in my watch pocket. I've had to do some work on a few of the Chinese knives, and tighten & center the blades as needed, but one of my constant companions is a Chinese-made Wild Boar saddle horn two blade razor knife that fits my hand perfectly, holds and edge, and lives in a sheath on my belt; it is simply the handiest knife I ever owned. I spent a couple of hours tightening the blades & rounding sharp edges off the top & bottom, then re-filing & refinishing the bolsters, but ended up with a good, tight-bladed, very sharp every day knife. So kick me for using, AND liking a Chinese-made knife....but when ya do I'll cut yer toe off with that razor blade!

BTW: The Chinese didn't steal our manufacturing jobs, our government and our corporate giants, (you know, the ones that own our government), GAVE those jobs to China to make an extra buck per unit more on the stuff we buy. The best we can do is buy our Chinese junk from red blooded Americans, at least some of the money stays here that way. My two cents.

[whitebuffalo58]

Might as well love 'em, the days coming when they'll be the only choice we have left.
I think the only things keeping the American cutlery industry alive now, are collectors and a handful of hardcore old timers that refuse to buy anything NOT made in the U.S. When that generation's gone, there won't be that many left to care.
Ever since Bic came out with those throw away plastic lighters, we've become a disposable nation. We buy cheap junk, use it, abuse it, throw it away and go buy another cheap piece of junk.
All through our history, Americans have found a way to compete with foreign manufacturing and keep their respective industries alive. The tariffs around the turn of the century, Henry Ford in the 20's and 30's and, say what you will about there shell handled knives, but even Imperial and others like them found a way in the 30's, 40's and on into the 70's. But somewhere down the road, the masses quit caring.
I guess if you think about it in another context though, these same folks who kept industry alive in this country, may very well have contributed to our current way of thinking. They may have made it TOO easy for folks to have the things they have. Where's the pride in owning a Model T, if 2/3 of the people around you have one too? You can apply that pride of ownership to virtually everything in our everyday lives. A washing machine, is just a washing machine and a knife is just a knife. The vast majority could care less where it was made, just as long as they have one.
In my humble opinion, that's the way it's gonna be in the foreseeable future and it saddens me to say it, but this attitude all seems to have deepened drastically within my own generation and I don't see anything in the next to lead me to believe it's gonna change. At least not for the better and most likely it's gonna get worse.
I don't know if all of this makes any real point to the conversation, maybe it's just rantings from an old fool. But until the day comes when Americans themselves believe in "Made in the U.S.A.", then "Made in the USA" isn't going to mean anything to the rest of the world either.
As for me, I still say I'd rather pay for and own just one $100 knife made in the U.S., then ten knives made anywhere else. But since we are having this conversation, it's pretty obvious that those of us that still think that way are the exception, not the rule and we can't live forever. So I guess, go ahead and buy made in China, there's nobody gonna stop you.

WB, having one of those days!

[Baykeeper]

Talk about Chinese knives! A buddy who used to work in a hardware store dropped by the other day, and knowing I like knives gave me this handful of foreign-made knives he had picked up over the years, (first photo). The one on the far right is a "Coast" brand, Chinese-made, 4" folding hunter. I put it on my bench, tightened the blade by squeezing the bolster, (wrapped in leather), in a vice, re-peened the hinge pin, then refinished the bolsters. After sharpening it has became one of the nicest feeling knives I have ever held in my hand. Very tight blades, tight lock, smooth curved handles, and now, sharp as a razor. The third from the left is a USA Schrade, but I suspect it is a Taylor Brands model, so who knows where it was actually made, (USA is stamped on the hilt, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything). I tightened up and sharpened all of them, so now I have a handful of "give away" knives.

Is it ok to like a Chinese-made knife if it's free, or does that make me a bad person for owning, (and enjoying), a supposedly-junk knife?

The second photo is from a recent swap meet run, spent $15 for all four. The fixed blade is a Kabar, needs a pommel, but the blade is good, and has a nice leather handle, I'll find a pommel one of these days and will repair it. The razor knife is Chinese "Wild Boar" brand, after tightening and rounding off of some sharp edges it is now a tight, very sharp, and very useful & handy knife to have. I have a sheath which fits it well, so I frequently carry it. The white-handled slip joint is Pakistani, has solid brass bolsters, is centered, and has spotless, very sharp blades. The Barlow is stamped "Ireland" but nothing else, so who knows; it has plastic handles, so that will be a project to put nice wood handles on eventually, (I have some Ovangkl around somewhere, would make really nice knife handles).
So, I'm confused. According to the purists, I am supposed to regard these as "junk" and walk away because they aren't USA-made? C'mon fellas, live a little, embrace the "global" economy.
Getting up early again tomorrow and heading out to the swap, maybe some more Chinese "junk" treasures are awaiting me there.

[jerryd6818]

I've seen bunches of opinions expressed here regarding knives made on the Pacific Rim Mainland. Everybody has one. Unless I just missed it, what I don't recall seeing is anyone telling others how they should think nor what they should buy. Opinions? Yes. Recommendations? Yes. But as far as telling you what to spend your money on or what to stick in your pocket? No.

Welcome to AAPK where everyone has an opinion and few are reluctant to express theirs. Glad to have you aboard.

[Baykeeper]

I've seen bunches of opinions expressed here regarding knives made on the Pacific Rim Mainland. Everybody has one. Unless I just missed it, what I don't recall seeing is anyone telling others how they should think nor what they should buy. Opinions? Yes. Recommendations? Yes. But as far as telling you what to spend your money on or what to stick in your pocket? No.

Welcome to AAPK where everyone has an opinion and few are reluctant to express theirs. Glad to have you aboard.

Haven't seen it on this thread, but definitely have seen tantrums, tirades, arguments and downright belittlement regarding non-USA knives on other threads/forums. This is the only forum I've found that actually has a discussion on the subject where you don't get yelled down, other forums will often just ignore you completely if you mention owning Chinese knives. Somehow you're not a real "collector" if you mention Chinese-made on those forums. Recently saw a new member of another forum simply post, "what is wrong with Chinese knives"?, on a thread, and the one single response he got was , "BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE IN CHINA!!!". It's refreshing to find a forum, and a thread which welcomes such discussion, and I'm enjoying discussing my rusty finds....Wish me luck at the swap meet!

[cody6268]

Let's not forget that the blades on samurai swords, which are made in Japan (so still technically Far Eastern), are the best there are.


I've had good and bad experiences with Chinese-made knives. I had a little Coast, and couple Schrades as a kid, and those were good knives, despite being made in China. However, I've had several that screws and thumb studs completely fell out of, liner locks that loosened up (could easily open to the point the knife was dangerous to use), and some so cheaply made they were useless. I also had a Lansky that had the pocket clip and blade held on by the same screw. That knife got caught on the ATV seatbelt somehow, and it bent the screw. I've carried a Colonial Quick Flick which I bought barely a year ago, which unlike all of my other Colonials (USA made) this thing's made in China. The blade is sharp, and it seems well made, but time will tell like the others that broke, which I carried heavily.

Every year, a family friend has given me various inexpensive Chinese-made knives for my collection, but I don't use them, and put them up for safe keeping for sentimental value.

[cody6268]

Recently found my Made in China Imperial Barlow. Since I lost it, I found a rather well-used USA made Stockman for $4, which I redid. The difference in quality is night and day. The Chinese one is no better quality than ones found in dollar stores, while the US made one is a durable workhorse.

[pocketsword]

Those who don't like China knives because of the politics of China, just look at us here in USA. We pay taxes to a government who trades 5 Taliban leaders for a US deserter. We pay taxes to a government who made legal the murder of 60,000 unborn babies. WE pay taxes to a government who let's a man marry a man. If we are going to delegate our finances according to politics, we will have to buy a desert island somewhere and start our own country. The china knife industry is supported by big time USA companies like Frost, Blue Ridge Knives, Taylor Brands, Schrade, Colt, Hen and Rooster, and about every other brand you can mention. Not everyone has $75 plus to lay out for a shiny new whittler, so the China market has made it possible for anyone to collect a few pretty knives. They may not be a Cadillac, but a lot of us don't drive Cadillac's. I say everyone to his own, and when you put someone down who bought a Rough Rider just because you can afford a Case XX, I say you are full of pride and feel like you are better than your fellow man.

[wazu013]

Rough Rider

[garddogg56]

china Kershaw

[Just Plain Dave]

Rough Rider

I been hankering for one of those. But no online buying and I ain't likely to get to SMKW in the rest of my life.
Besides. I've been bitten by the desire for a Benchmade 15016-1 hunter with S30V steel....

[jerryd6818]

1445 Half-Ton. dogg, I bought it because the wrench clip is cool. There's also the 1440 Chubby that's made in Japan.

They also make a 3/4 Ton which is a little bigger and a 1 Ton which is bigger yet.

[fergusontd]

Remember the Jap knives made in the 50's. Maybe the Chinese quality will improve in years to come. ftd

[Just Plain Dave]

My Chinese Schrade jack ain't TOO bad. And the Rough Riders I have kept are ok.
But OF COURSE the don't have SOUL.

[Lansky1]

I have had some Chinese made knives over the years. The select few I have kept have surprisingly nice fit and finish. The truly junk knives that I've seen at shows are the ones from Pakistan - horrible fit and finish and overall no attention to detail (I'm sure there are exceptions, but I haven't seen any yet).