UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
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UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Can members tell me the span of years the UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y. tang stamp was used?
Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Goin's Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings gives the dates, 1911-1951.
Joe
Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Goins' is a little off depending on one's interpretation of the question. Union Cut Co moved to Olean, NY in 1911. In 1952 they changed their name to KA-BAR Inc. BUT, they began the KA-BAR trademark and stamp in 1923. Now most KA-BAR marked knives from 1923-1943 will also have a Union Cut Co mark on the back of hunting knives and large folding knives or secondary blades of pocket knives. The Union Cut Co mark was dropped around 1943 with the advent of the military knives produced for WW2 and the mark on all knives changed to KA-BAR over Olean, NY, and the Union Cut mark disappeared. At this time there will also be no marks on secondary blades of pocket knives and nothing on the backs of hunting knives. Sometime after the war while still Union Cut Co the stamps changed again to KA-BAR over USA. When the company changed it's name to KA-BAR Inc. the marks changed again to Kabar (lower case italicized), and again, no Union Cut Co marks.
Now here is where it gets tough. When the KCC (KA-BAR Collectors Club) began issuing "club knives" in 1976 they began using Union Cut Co marks again on secondary blades and the backs of some main blades. These knives were made by Queen and careful inspection will reveal they are not as well made as the original Union Cut made knives. So, a general statement would be that the Union Cut Co Olean, NY as the ONLY mark on an old knife would date it to 1911-1923. Except for any KCC knives with that mark.
There are also Olcut marked knives and Olcut was another brand name used by Union Cut. The beginning use of the Olcut mark is unknown but it is listed in price lists up to 1937 and is no longer tin the 1938 or 1940 price list. Olcuts will also usually have a Union Cut mark along with Olcut. The Olcut mark is not 1911-1923 or necessarily pre-KA-BAR as mentioned in some books.
Now here is where it gets tough. When the KCC (KA-BAR Collectors Club) began issuing "club knives" in 1976 they began using Union Cut Co marks again on secondary blades and the backs of some main blades. These knives were made by Queen and careful inspection will reveal they are not as well made as the original Union Cut made knives. So, a general statement would be that the Union Cut Co Olean, NY as the ONLY mark on an old knife would date it to 1911-1923. Except for any KCC knives with that mark.
There are also Olcut marked knives and Olcut was another brand name used by Union Cut. The beginning use of the Olcut mark is unknown but it is listed in price lists up to 1937 and is no longer tin the 1938 or 1940 price list. Olcuts will also usually have a Union Cut mark along with Olcut. The Olcut mark is not 1911-1923 or necessarily pre-KA-BAR as mentioned in some books.
Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Your knife appears to be a pre-war era model 71. Model 71 was available with several handle options including stag, fiber washer, leather, and celluloid, most with aluminum pommels fixed with a brass spanner or barrel nut. You mention it looks like a smaller version of the famed USMC KA-BAR, well, it was the 7" blade model 71 that the model 1217 USN/USMC knives were designed after. Model 71 was also available with 4,5,6, and 7' blades. the four and seven inch models are very hard to find.
- zzyzzogeton
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Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Except for some reason the WW2 Marine Corps assigned 1219 to the knife, becoming, after a few changes, the 1219C2 in its final iteration.Gunsil wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:24 pm Your knife appears to be a pre-war era model 71. Model 71 was available with several handle options including stag, fiber washer, leather, and celluloid, most with aluminum pommels fixed with a brass spanner or barrel nut. You mention it looks like a smaller version of the famed USMC KA-BAR, well, it was the 7" blade model 71 that the model 1217 USN/USMC knives were designed after. Model 71 was also available with 4,5,6, and 7' blades. the four and seven inch models are very hard to find.
Kabar's 1217 is the modern iteration of the 1219C2 which was based on the Kabar 71-7". Kabar's modern 1219 is the US Army stamped version of the 1217. Obviously, Kabar did not have an AR person like me assigning model numbers to the knives when they started makinhg them again in the late 70s. I would have assigned 1219 to USMC version.
Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Thanks for the help.Gunsil wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:24 pm Your knife appears to be a pre-war era model 71. Model 71 was available with several handle options including stag, fiber washer, leather, and celluloid, most with aluminum pommels fixed with a brass spanner or barrel nut. You mention it looks like a smaller version of the famed USMC KA-BAR, well, it was the 7" blade model 71 that the model 1217 USN/USMC knives were designed after. Model 71 was also available with 4,5,6, and 7' blades. the four and seven inch models are very hard to find.
Perception is Reality
- Whitneyrifle
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Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Not to pull up a “Zombie” thread, but reading this thread, I am a little confused. Here is a knife I just purchased. Looking at the marks as you describe them, is this a pre-43 or a knife from the 70s?
You have to be trusted by the people that lie to you. So that when they turn their backs on you, You'll get the chance to put the knife in….
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- Gold Tier
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Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Yours is an original older knife, 1923 to 1943.Whitneyrifle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:22 pm Not to pull up a “Zombie” thread, but reading this thread, I am a little confused. Here is a knife I just purchased. Looking at the marks as you describe them, is this a pre-43 or a knife from the 70s?
Hard to tell from the markings alone, one has to "read the knife", especially the handle material. The early green bone has never been duplicated in modern times.
Steve Pfeiffer, author of Collecting Case Knives: Identification and Price Guide published by Krause Publications.
Re: UNION CUT. CO. OLEAN N. Y.
Hi All,
Need some help identifying the model and year for a KA BAR UNION CUTLERY Fish Knife I have, the tang stamps read mark side main blade KA BAR STAINLESS also has etched on the blade STAINLESS STEEL PAT 1788656 the Scaler , Disgorger blade mark side has UNION CUT CO ORLEAN NY USA the pile side has PAT NO 1788656, the handles are Black Stag Type Composite with the hook sharpener front and rear nickel bolsters and pins brass liners.
Chris
Need some help identifying the model and year for a KA BAR UNION CUTLERY Fish Knife I have, the tang stamps read mark side main blade KA BAR STAINLESS also has etched on the blade STAINLESS STEEL PAT 1788656 the Scaler , Disgorger blade mark side has UNION CUT CO ORLEAN NY USA the pile side has PAT NO 1788656, the handles are Black Stag Type Composite with the hook sharpener front and rear nickel bolsters and pins brass liners.
Chris