KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I was hoping to get some help on this one for a friend who owns it... This 2 blade knife looks to have been used very little if at all, blades are full so ignore the shadow at blade tip - honestly don't know if it would be considered a trapper which I lean towards or a hunter - I don't have photos of the other blade which is a large spey or skinning blade from my understanding. I don't really know much at all about KA-BAR so a few questions -
When was it made in a date range?
Who made it if it was knife that was contracted out to be made for KA-BAR?
Is that handle bone or delrin? Hard for me to tell by the photo...
Value range? I know this is tough so a range would be fine and I can't find any at the moment for comparison.
Thanks in advance
When was it made in a date range?
Who made it if it was knife that was contracted out to be made for KA-BAR?
Is that handle bone or delrin? Hard for me to tell by the photo...
Value range? I know this is tough so a range would be fine and I can't find any at the moment for comparison.
Thanks in advance
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Lee
Lee
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Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I know nothing about it - but I sure like it!
"The Luggage had a straightforward way of dealing with things between it and its intended destination: it ignored them." -Terry Pratchett
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Lee, that is one of the most sought after KA-BARs ever made. Likely made between the mid 1920s and 1940 or so. The scales are gorgeous KA-BAR jigged bone, no delrin in those days. Knife looks like it has been cleaned but in nice shape. Large trapper patterns by any company are very collectable and these dog heads bring good prices. I plan to go to Marlboro, hope I can, see you there if I do, probably drive Barry up with me. KA-BAR did not have knives made on contract for them in those days but they made knives on contract for others. Remember KA-BAR was only a brand name of Union Cut Co then and they also made knives under the Olcut and Keenwell brands as well as knives for Western States, Viking, and a lot of other retailers.
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Thanks so much Gene ... Much appreciated - and hope to see you at NCCA
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Lee
Lee
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I read sometime back that the "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." was about 1925. Nice old knife.
Harold
Harold
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
This info is totally incorrect as is a lot of the info on the KA-BAR stamp sheet that is on this forum. I have knives definitely made in the early 1940s with the "Reg US Pat Off" marks.stockman wrote:I read sometime back that the "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." was about 1925. Nice old knife.
Harold
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Thanks Roger - again not my knife and haven't seen it in hand - you think it has been buffed based on these photos or one of those abrasive polishes and hand rubbed?? Probably tough to answer without seeing better photos but I agree that it seems abit too clean for an old knife where one may expect some patina at the least even if sitting in some drawer for the last 80-near 100 years... I do understand the inside liners and well is pretty much spotless as is the back spring ... Anybody want to venture a guess as to value - I have no clue -just trying to help out a friend - +/- $500-600??
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Lee
Lee
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Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
First thought I had upon seeing the pictures was "it's been buffed". I say that from the looks of the tang, both the stamp and the tang line. I'm just judging it from the pictures and might change my mind having it in hand. Wonderful old knife though! I'd like to have seen it before "cleaning".
Ken
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I haven't even seen it in hand myself yet Ken and as you know in hand I will no doubt see if all looks crisp along swedge etc - and if not well the buffing monster attacked it - I "may" see it later today if I have time - though I have no interest in buying it and the owner is considering selling it.... I rather suggest a fair price to him to sell it at so he can decide whether to keep it or sell it - but guess nobody is comfortable throwing a price range out there (in fact any price estimates should take into consideration buffed or cleaned vs not - so I may need 2 estimates ...
I know I won't even buy an aggressively cleaned or buffed knife - I have bought knives which have been gently cleaned but only in certain circumstances and pending price and pattern (for example shiny bolsters and patina or some staining on blades is just not right in my eyes ).. As to this knife I can see how a tang stamp can get worn from a knife never having been oiled but blades being opened and closed numerous times though not the tang line... again I have seen so many photo illusions on knives that in hand unclose looks are the only way to go... (As an aside - I can say I have received a few knives I have bought on eBay where photos were questionable but in hand the knife was so much better than expected because of photo illusions (and I only took the chance because of the sellers return policy - though I hate to pay shipping just to look at a knife - I hate gambling so eBay is low on my list the last few years or so anyway....
I know I won't even buy an aggressively cleaned or buffed knife - I have bought knives which have been gently cleaned but only in certain circumstances and pending price and pattern (for example shiny bolsters and patina or some staining on blades is just not right in my eyes ).. As to this knife I can see how a tang stamp can get worn from a knife never having been oiled but blades being opened and closed numerous times though not the tang line... again I have seen so many photo illusions on knives that in hand unclose looks are the only way to go... (As an aside - I can say I have received a few knives I have bought on eBay where photos were questionable but in hand the knife was so much better than expected because of photo illusions (and I only took the chance because of the sellers return policy - though I hate to pay shipping just to look at a knife - I hate gambling so eBay is low on my list the last few years or so anyway....
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Lee
Lee
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
KA-BAR is known for weak tang stamps. I see pits under the blade finish which is why I say it has been cleaned, and the finish does not at all look like original KA-BAR finish. Sadly the bone handles have also been buffed reducing the clarity of the jigging and making it much more shiny than original. Lee, if your friend wishes to part with it you should just bring it to NCCA. I may like it or not when held in hand and there may be others there who would have an interest in it. It is a hard doggie to find.
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Thanks again Gene ... He may or may not let me take it to the show without having a price in mind - Personally I am NOT taking the responsibility of deciding on a price for him BUT maybe I can arrange it so that I can call him with an offer from the show - we will see Gene and I will do my best ...
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Lee
Lee
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Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Lee,even cleaned that is still a very desirable knife.Comparable to a Remington 1123.
Roger
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Nice looking and desirable heavy trapper pattern. As said it is very similar to the Remington R1123 bullet knife but much harder to find. I would value it above a similar condition R1123 bullet just based on scarcity. Even though there are probably more Remington and bullet pattern collectors out there it is a much harder to find knife.
Here is one that I have had for some time. I've owned and sold a number of R1123 bullets but have managed to hold tight to this knife.
Here is one that I have had for some time. I've owned and sold a number of R1123 bullets but have managed to hold tight to this knife.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
Wayne
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Wayne
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Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Thanks Roger and Wayne - indeed very helpful ... Thanks for the photo Wayne as a comparison which is helpful and the fact you have not let it go says alot to me ... Again I really am not a KA-BAR collector at all and never would have thought it was even more valuable and scarce than a Bullet 1123 as a few of you folks have now mentioned - in fact when I saw the knife in question today "upclose and personal" in hand my first words were "this sure looks like a Remington Bullet" ... It may have been cleaned but in my opinion not aggressively at all - gentle cleaning in my opinion - edges on swedges etc are there for sure... Very lightly used - I almost want to say not at all but it may have cut something at one time ...
Thanks to all - I knew I would get the right info here
Thanks to all - I knew I would get the right info here
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Lee
Lee
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I don't claim to know much about KA-Bar. Goins stated "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." 1925-1930.Gunsil wrote:This info is totally incorrect as is a lot of the info on the KA-BAR stamp sheet that is on this forum. I have knives definitely made in the early 1940s with the "Reg US Pat Off" marks.stockman wrote:I read sometime back that the "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." was about 1925. Nice old knife.
Harold
Harold
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I agree with you Harold and had read that myself - and personally like you without other info I have used the Goins reference (and think the Goins book is an extremely important reference to knife collectors - at least those interested in history, dating etc and not just accumulating)... Gene seems to know otherwise (and not at all saying Gene is incorrect either) but I like to see the hard evidence that indicates knives made after 1930 also used that mark - actually either way .. For example If I see catalog info from the 1940s with that stamp on the knives I will Indeed go with new info.. For me you can't believe everything you read to a certain degree and there are no doubt mistakes in all kinds of reference books...stockman wrote:I don't claim to know much about KA-Bar. Goins stated "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." 1925-1930.Gunsil wrote:This info is totally incorrect as is a lot of the info on the KA-BAR stamp sheet that is on this forum. I have knives definitely made in the early 1940s with the "Reg US Pat Off" marks.stockman wrote:I read sometime back that the "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF." was about 1925. Nice old knife.
Harold
Harold
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Lee
Lee
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
I picked up this KaBar Jumbo Cigar Jack used in only slightly abused condition and I'm hoping one of you guys can help me date it. The tang stamp reads: Kabar over 1003 over U.S.A. Any info on how to date Kabar knives and especially this one will be appreciated. Thanks...
A GOOD KNIFE IS LIKE A GOOD FRIEND, IT'LL NEVER LET YOU DOWN.
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Charlie (Squach)
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
~ John Wayne ~
Charlie (Squach)
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Hi Sasquach, your Kabar is definitely from the 60’s. Have a number of that era and they make great edc’s. The delrin handled Kabars don’t have a lot of value but they are good quality, sturdy knives. I believe this one was made during the period when Cole owned Kabar.
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Thanks Zenithman. I was guessing 60s or 70s. I have several smaller Kabar folders from that era. I had to argue with the seller about the handle, he swore it was bone. I let him think what he liked and bought the knife anyway because I liked it. I have a couple of Camillus #23 cigar jacks that look like they were made on the same pattern except the master blades are spear point and the Delrin is white. One of the #23s is an EDC the other is mint on display. This Kabar is destined to ride on my belt in my EDC rotation, the clip point master blade and brown Delrin make it a prime candidate for the favorite EDC category.zenithman wrote:Hi Sasquach, your Kabar is definitely from the 60’s. Have a number of that era and they make great edc’s. The delrin handled Kabars don’t have a lot of value but they are good quality, sturdy knives. I believe this one was made during the period when Cole owned Kabar.
Unlike many of my other knives like Case, Camillus, Queen etc. Kabar knives are hard for me to date. Is there any info other than Goins that helps?
Below is one of my favorite watch pocket EDCs. A Kabar #1005 that I'm pretty sure is from the same era.
A GOOD KNIFE IS LIKE A GOOD FRIEND, IT'LL NEVER LET YOU DOWN.
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
~ John Wayne ~
Charlie (Squach)
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
~ John Wayne ~
Charlie (Squach)
- zzyzzogeton
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Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Hey Charlie
Your knife has 3 of the ways to visually "date", at least broadly, Kabar knives.
1 - If a Kabar has the word Kabar in italics, it is post-1953, when they changed from all caps to UC/LC Italics.
2 - If a knife (not just Kabar, but any brand) has Delrin handles, it is post-1960. 1961 was the first year Delrin was available in commercial quantities.
3 - If a Kabar has a model number stamped on the blade, it is post-1966, when Cole National added model numbers after they bought Kabar from the Robinson Knife Company (who had bought it from the 2 men who bought it from the Brown family in 1961 and managed Kabar into bankruptcy).
So by these "rules of thumb", your knife is a post-1967 Kabar
Kabar had some fixed blades in the 1930s with model numbers, but those were stamped in the guards.
Your knife has 3 of the ways to visually "date", at least broadly, Kabar knives.
1 - If a Kabar has the word Kabar in italics, it is post-1953, when they changed from all caps to UC/LC Italics.
2 - If a knife (not just Kabar, but any brand) has Delrin handles, it is post-1960. 1961 was the first year Delrin was available in commercial quantities.
3 - If a Kabar has a model number stamped on the blade, it is post-1966, when Cole National added model numbers after they bought Kabar from the Robinson Knife Company (who had bought it from the 2 men who bought it from the Brown family in 1961 and managed Kabar into bankruptcy).
So by these "rules of thumb", your knife is a post-1967 Kabar
Kabar had some fixed blades in the 1930s with model numbers, but those were stamped in the guards.
- zzyzzogeton
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Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Once upon a time, there was a document available on the Kabar website that listed all the model numbers of Kabar knives made since Cole National took over, along with the year of initial production and year of discontinuation and last retail price.
It is not completely accurate as apparently some things were left off - your first knife only has a "03" showing, which would imply a 1003 or 1103. But my list doesn't include a model 1003 or 1103. It has a 1203, but that's a fixed blade. I have 2 of them. All 12xx Kabars are fixed blades.
Your "xx03" would also be from the mid-60s to either 1978 or 1984. Those are the 2 end of production dates for all but a handful of the 10xx and 11xx folding knives.
The model 1005 in your 2nd picture is listed as being from "mid-60s" to 1978, with a final retail price of $8.00
It is not completely accurate as apparently some things were left off - your first knife only has a "03" showing, which would imply a 1003 or 1103. But my list doesn't include a model 1003 or 1103. It has a 1203, but that's a fixed blade. I have 2 of them. All 12xx Kabars are fixed blades.
Your "xx03" would also be from the mid-60s to either 1978 or 1984. Those are the 2 end of production dates for all but a handful of the 10xx and 11xx folding knives.
The model 1005 in your 2nd picture is listed as being from "mid-60s" to 1978, with a final retail price of $8.00
Re: KA-BAR Knife ID and Questions
Thank you very much! Very helpful information.zzyzzogeton wrote:Once upon a time, there was a document available on the Kabar website that listed all the model numbers of Kabar knives made since Cole National took over, along with the year of initial production and year of discontinuation and last retail price.
It is not completely accurate as apparently some things were left off - your first knife only has a "03" showing, which would imply a 1003 or 1103. But my list doesn't include a model 1003 or 1103. It has a 1203, but that's a fixed blade. I have 2 of them. All 12xx Kabars are fixed blades.
Your "xx03" would also be from the mid-60s to either 1978 or 1984. Those are the 2 end of production dates for all but a handful of the 10xx and 11xx folding knives.
The model 1005 in your 2nd picture is listed as being from "mid-60s" to 1978, with a final retail price of $8.00
A GOOD KNIFE IS LIKE A GOOD FRIEND, IT'LL NEVER LET YOU DOWN.
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
~ John Wayne ~
Charlie (Squach)
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
~ John Wayne ~
Charlie (Squach)