Is Bulldog still in business?

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chow
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Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by chow »

My uncle collected and traded Bulldog knives decades ago. He felt generous and gave me one for some chores I did for him. I never used it because it was too nice for the abuse I gave a pocket knife. I put it in a jewelry box and, for reasons I can't imagine, the damned thing just disintegrated. The red cellulose handle turned yellow and crumbled to dust. The blades rusted out (to be expected because of the steel), and even the back spring broke in half for no apparent reason. All this just sitting in a jewelry box beside grandpa's pocket watch. I've never seen the like. --No, it wasn't exposed to moisture or chemicals...just time.
If the manufacturer is still in business I would like to send it back to them and ask, 'what's up with this?' They were insanely expensive collectors items back when my uncle messed with them and supposedly had the reputation of being one of the finest pocket knives made. I've searched the internet but can't find out any information.
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Railsplitter
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Railsplitter »

Your knife was the victim of Celluloid Out Gassing. Look that up and you'll find that it's fairly common on knives with celluloid handles slabs.

I have no idea if Bulldog is still in business but they sure did or do make some mighty fine looking knives.
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chow
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by chow »

Celluloid Out Gassing? Thanks for the reply. I'll look that up. It was startling to watch a knife just disintegrate like that. Not exactly quality.
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edge213
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by edge213 »

chow wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:42 am Celluloid Out Gassing? Thanks for the reply. I'll look that up. It was startling to watch a knife just disintegrate like that. Not exactly quality.
There is plenty of information on celluloid outgassing on AAPK. Use the search and you can be up all night getting educated.
Also, welcome to AAPK.
David
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chow
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by chow »

Just read a pretty good description of it. They said it was only used in the early 1900s and isn't made anymore except for a small factory in Germany. That some knife makers in Germany use it....I can guess one of those German knife makers...lol
You would think that enough time had passed since Celluloid was introduced that Bulldog would have known what was going to become of their knives. Odd decision.
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Railsplitter
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Railsplitter »

chow wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:25 am All this just sitting in a jewelry box beside grandpa's pocket watch.
By now you probably already know this but you might want to inspect your grandpa's pocket watch too. I sincerely hope there's no damage but outgassing can affect nearby objects too. Better take a look now to avoid any surprises later.
Rick T.

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chow
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by chow »

The watch is fine. It's really an old wristwatch converted into a pocket watch with a chain. No real value to it other than a "my father/his father thing. (poverty stricken Depression era farmer) Still runs though.
I still have my panties in a bunch about the Bulldog knife though. It was one of the few really nice things I had in my jewelry box. I thought it was going to be an heirloom.
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Railsplitter
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Railsplitter »

I can only imagine how you must feel. Very sorry to hear about this.
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Colonel26
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Colonel26 »

Some of the old celluloid has been stable for YEARS! But the German celluloid from the 70’s onward was like a time bomb. Even the American stuff in the 90’s.

I recently got hold of a NIB black box Winchester Congress from the 90’s with beautiful celluloid handles. First thing I did was send it off and have them replaced with bone. I’m not taking chances.
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by RevolverGuy »

I'm sorry to hear about your knife Unfortunately like others have mentioned there is a reason no one uses celluloid anymore... Only time I have ever seen a knife as bad as you mentioned was one that I saw recovered from a flood. It had been under water for nearly a year and rusted out and had the main spring broken like that.

As for Bulldog, these were once some of the finest quality German folders. Originally they were launched in 1978 and made by the Friedrich Olbertz Factory in Solingen. The knives made from 1978- to mid-1980s were in my opinion their best. Jim Parker bought the brand in the 90s and continued the tradition of keeping them made in Germany for some time. The later ones from 2009-2016 were made by Great Eastern Cutlery here in the U.S. From what I understand the brand is still around but it's changed hands and is now under Frost. Like everything else Frost does... Bulldog knives of today are made in China.
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rea1eye
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by rea1eye »

Chow,

If that knife has a special meaning to you perhaps you should consider having the handles
and spring replaced. There are some fellows here who work on knives. The turn around
time is probably a few months. You can then replace the handles with stag,wood,etc and
not worry again. Just a thought.

Welcome to the forum!

Bob
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Quick Steel
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Quick Steel »

Chow, I can certainly understand your disappointment. I am a fan of Bulldog knives. The current Bulldog knives made in China have nothing in common with the German/American knives. China is capable of making some very decent knives but the current Bulldogs are not among these.

May I make a suggestion? Go to our AAPK stores, or ebay if you prefer, and pick up a German Bulldog knife that appeals to you. Then let it represent the memory of your uncle. He recognized the quality of the brand as did you. Just avoid the celluloid handles.
chow
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by chow »

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm not overly sentimental, just indignant. You've given me some ideas though. I have some elk antler and I might try restoring it myself. I've done blacksmithing and woodworking for decades so I'm not bad at the artsey/craftsey stuff so why not? Bois D' Arc might make a great handle too. I think it's the most beautiful wood in the world if you could just keep it yellow and it wasn't so unstable.
I'll bet money there's a dozen videos on Youtube showing just how to go about it. Turn a negative into a positive. I like that notion.
Hey guys, you've been great! Most forums would have bitched at me for posting in the wrong place or not reading the archives before bothering them with my silly-ass question. I've learned of the perils of 'out gassing'...lol Appreciate ya!
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by cudgee »

chow wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:34 pm Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm not overly sentimental, just indignant. You've given me some ideas though. I have some elk antler and I might try restoring it myself. I've done blacksmithing and woodworking for decades so I'm not bad at the artsey/craftsey stuff so why not? Bois D' Arc might make a great handle too. I think it's the most beautiful wood in the world if you could just keep it yellow and it wasn't so unstable.
I'll bet money there's a dozen videos on Youtube showing just how to go about it. Turn a negative into a positive. I like that notion.
Hey guys, you've been great! Most forums would have bitched at me for posting in the wrong place or not reading the archives before bothering them with my silly-ass question. I've learned of the perils of 'out gassing'...lol Appreciate ya!


You obviously have a good handle on woodwork, excuse the pun ::facepalm:: , so i would in no way tell you your craft or what to do. But you mention about a wood i have never heard of and about keeping it yellow. Would pure raw linseed oil be of any use, it can yellow over time when applied to wood, and you can reapply regularly to keep the wood in good condition. Maybe a thought. ::handshake::
chow
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by chow »

You probably know the wood as Osage Orange or Horse Apple. It's called Bois D' Arc, or bow wood here because the Indians used to make bows out of it. When you first cut it its just lustrous yellow. It's so hard the only way you can work it is when it's green. I used to turn mallets out of it and you can't even put a dent in it. The problem is its so hard its very unstable and will split itself apart when it dries. I think you could get away with small knife handle pieces though. If it does split I've seen this technique where they glue ground up turquoise into the cracks and lacquer over it. I've wanted to try that.
After it dries the wood oxidizes and turns brownish yellow. That's a shame because the wood is just stunning when its bright yellow first cut. I've not found a way to prevent this and to my knowledge I don't know if there is one. I've coated mallets in wax and everything I can think of. It would still make a handsome handle for a knife though.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Case, GEC, and others have made knives with Bois d’Arc handle covers. Most if not all wood used by professional knife makers both factory and custom is “stabilized”. Not sure what is used nor how, but assume it must be some penetrant material. Someone here probably knows. “Mr.Google” probably knows. In fact you can buy stabilized Bois d’Arc for knife handles from Jantz Supply. https://knifemaking.com/products/osage- ... 524a&_ss=r

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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by grangerknives »

I wonder if there is some certain ambient circumstances, or some specific materials stored nearby that increase the chances of celluiod flash or degredation.

I have about 12-14 Bulldog folders, and about 7-8 of them are celluoid. I have had them about 24 years and have had no celluoid-related problems at all. Praise the Lord. I do keep them in an air tight box with dessicants to inhibit rust. Perhaps that accounts for some of my success.

Paul
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

grangerknives wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:50 pm I wonder if there is some certain ambient circumstances, or some specific materials stored nearby that increase the chances of celluiod flash or degredation.

I have about 12-14 Bulldog folders, and about 7-8 of them are celluoid. I have had them about 24 years and have had no celluoid-related problems at all. Praise the Lord. I do keep them in an air tight box with dessicants to inhibit rust. Perhaps that accounts for some of my success.

Paul
No one knows. The why and what triggers celluloid disintegration is an unsolved mystery as far as I know. I’ve never seen any scientific studies providing an explanation, but you’ll find a lot of anecdotal information on this forum. Most of it seems to indicate leaving the knives exposed to air and not in close proximity to other celluloid, and not confined to a tight small area, and not exposed to heat or sunlight is best. It is known that if several celluloid knives are together in a confined space and one “goes off” it will quickly take the others with it. It seems the nitrous acid fumes created by decomposing celluloid are contagious.

Your guess is as good as any. ::shrug:: You can find lots of info by searching the forum for “celluloid”.

Ken
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eveled
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by eveled »

chow wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:59 am Just read a pretty good description of it. They said it was only used in the early 1900s and isn't made anymore except for a small factory in Germany. That some knife makers in Germany use it....I can guess one of those German knife makers...lol
You would think that enough time had passed since Celluloid was introduced that Bulldog would have known what was going to become of their knives. Odd decision.
Case, Rough Rider, Bear and Sons all still make knives with celluloid handles. Makes no sense to me.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

eveled wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:12 am
Case, Rough Rider, Bear and Sons all still make knives with celluloid handles. Makes no sense to me.
I don’t pretend to keep up with all that Case has done the past 20-30 years, but I don’t recall any recent Case knives with celluloid covers. The last I recall that used celluloid were the Case Classics (made by Queen in the 1990s). Delrin and Kirinite seem to have supplanted celluloid at Case. You’ve piqued my curiosity though so I’ll do some digging. ::hmm::

Ken

Edit: According to the Case Collector's Club site the last use of celluloid by Case was 2004 (two patterns - candy stripe was one of them) and 2006 (one pattern) in the Case Select line. A celluloid warning label was on the boxes.

Ken
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by grangerknives »

Isn't Delrin about the least interesting handle material available?
I think the only thing worse is PVC,
eveled
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by eveled »

I knew I had seen a recently made knife as having celluloid scales. So I just searched celluloid knife and listed the current ones that were listed. The Case one was a Louisiana Purchase commemorative knife listed as Cats Eye Celluloid. But a deeper search shows results that it’s actually Cats Eye Corelon. So who really knows the truth. I avoid anything that even looks like celluloid.

Point I was trying to make was that it’s possible for even a new knife to have celluloid handles.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

I doubt it, but Corelon may turn out to have its own set of problems just like celluloid does. Ask me again in 30-40 years - if I live that long I'll be glad to say I know! ::tu:: :lol:

Ken
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by cody6268 »

I've been seeing an eyeglasses company advertising on TV that their glasses are made out of "Cellulose Acetate" which I could've sworn was another name for celluloid. So, it's obviously being produced commercially still.
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Re: Is Bulldog still in business?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

It is indeed. And in applications besides pocket knives it seems to last at least long enough to live out its useful life. How long do we expect eyeglass frames to be used by the purchaser? Maybe 5 years? Or? When they were made I doubt anyone thought we would be discussing the attributes of 50 to 100+ year old pocket knives!

There are 100+ year old combs and numerous other celluloid items still around. I have a Seth Thomas mantle clock dating to the late 1800's that has been passed down from my great grandparents. It has decorative celluloid column pieces that are still in good condition (they may have shrunk a little - hard to tell for sure).

But who knows how many may have disintegrated and been thrown out? All we see is those items that have survived and pocket knives we see both surviving and disintegrating.

Ken
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