Canal Street Lockback ????

Former Schrade President Walley Gardner and principal Joe Hufnagel joined with nine master cutlers to form a group of US craftsmen with over 300 years of combined knife making experience. The company they created is located in upstate New York where a long and rich tradition of quality knife making dates back to the 19th century.
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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby kootenay joe » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:11 pm

aet, you are hoping that the knife is what you want it to be, talking yourself into it, rather than objectively looking at it.
I think almost every knife collector has done the same. It takes for some of us years of collecting before we can stop our minds from trying to make the knife be what we want it to be.
If you have a Schrade LB7 or a picture of one, compare it closely to this round shield LB. Other than handles, it's the same knife. The blade on this round shield knife is not marked, so is the knife a Schrade USA LB7 or a China made LB7 ?
I don't know of anyway to tell.
kj

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:56 pm

philco wrote:
wazu013 wrote:If you scroll through the sellers history, he has sold a good number of CS knives.


I've has some prior contact with this seller. I've seen some factory second Canal Street knives that the seller presented as mint condition new knives when I knew better. The knife that is the subject of this post is what I believe to be the first full blown fake Canal Street I've seen on ebay.


With Canal Street out of business and prices for their knives going up, I expect to see more fakes showing up. Caveat emptor!

Ken
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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby Schradenut » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:45 pm

I, like you Philco have had dealing with the Lady selling the LB7. My dealings have always been positive, and find her most accommodating. However when i saw this knife on 'the bay' this morning, my thoughts went straight to an LB7, and my second went to the price.

What also surprises me is the lack of identification. All the CSC knives i have are stamped "Canal Street" somewhere. This one would definitely have a tang stamp. From what i can see it is only the shied that identifies it as a Canal Street knife.

Knowing this seller over many years i find her to be very honest, and if this knife has been altered then she wouldn't be aware of it, and would be selling it in good faith. When SCS were still in business she brought stacks of knives, and is slowly filtering them onto the market.

For mine it is an LB7 with a succulent set of Stag covers.
Tony.

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby americanedgetech » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:49 pm

Earlier today I contacted the seller thru the Ebay "Contact Seller" feature.

My message was simple... I only want to help, and I directed the seller to this thread.

If this is a true case of mistaken identity the seller will at LEAST have some info that he/she did not have before.
I have no way of knowing if the seller has seen my message (other than a reply which I do not expect).
but at least "I" know that this seller has access to information that may make a difference.

Honest mistakes happen ALL the time, and unless you are a certified, recognized expert at grading knives for auction... mistakes are bound to be more common.

For what it's worth, I hope it helps.
Ken Mc.

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby Railsplitter » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:12 am

To be fair, the seller states "I was told this was made special for someone" which is probably the truth and a point that I failed to point out when I replied earlier.
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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby americanedgetech » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:47 am

I think it is all good.
The "tone" of this thread was very civil.

You all have a nice crew here.
Kudos!
Ken Mc.

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I need a pile side scale. THX!

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby ea42 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:36 am

Sorry folks, I never tried that link, I just took one look at the photo and knew it wasn't a Canal Street. I know the seller personally myself, and I'm sure she wouldn't know that particular knife wasn't a legit CS knife without someone bringing it to her attention, especially if she was told by the person she acquired it from that it was made special, etc etc. I'm also quite certain I know the original owner as well. He worked with us at Canal Street for a number of years, and before that he was the foreman in the LB-7 department at Schrade, so you can imagine how many LB-7's he had. He was a great guy and I'm sure his original intent wasn't to make a CS fake to hoodwink some unsuspecting buyer. Most all the guys I know from Schrade a) have a LOT of knives and b) never sell them. It's usually their kids who wind up being burdened with selling them after they pass away. Like I said it was most likely a Schrade knife in need of a shield and the Canal Street shield happened to fit. It's also very likely the tang stamp was already ground off at Schrade because that's one of the things they did to rejects to insure that they weren't sold as top grade knives. He sold off a bunch of his knives to the seller a few years ago when he got sick and has since passed away. No way of knowing what he said to her about this knife, but it's always possible that he may have embellished it a bit, and with what he was going through at the time I couldn't fault him for it. So that's about all I have to say about it, definitely not Canal Street, likely a repaired Schrade second.

Eric

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby americanedgetech » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:59 am

Well, heck!!! ::dang::

That comes full circle to what I asked in the beginning of this thread.

Could someone that worked there have made for it ANY reason? Looks like the old gal is off the hook! ::ds::
I hope she does see the thread, and gets the story. Turns out to be pretty interesting!
Ken Mc.

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I need a pile side scale. THX!

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby philco » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:53 am

I sent the seller a message through ebay letting her know the knife was not a Canal Street product and I even informed her that a former Canal Street employee had verified that Canal Street never made that knife. I have not gotten a reply.
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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby ea42 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:43 am

americanedgetech wrote:Well, heck!!! ::dang::

That comes full circle to what I asked in the beginning of this thread.

Could someone that worked there have made for it ANY reason? Looks like the old gal is off the hook! ::ds::
I hope she does see the thread, and gets the story. Turns out to be pretty interesting!


New stag handles are the only thing that could have been added to that knife at Canal Street, everything else is Schrade, period. Those brass scales were made from powdered metal and formed under super high pressure so that there was absolutely minimal work that had to be done to them once they were formed. We definitely didn't have that kind of equipment. And no one there was going to go and mill out two giant chunks of brass in order to make an EXACT copy of an existing Schrade knife either. With the cost of brass what it is that individual would have been brought out back and shot. I already posted pics what we made previously, and none of them come close. If it were made in the shop it would have been done by one of the master cutler/machinists since making a lockback is very exacting work. You need scales, a butt piece, a fly spring that fits the butt piece, a lockbar and blade with a tang notch to fit the lockbar perfectly. You need a fixture that machines the nail mark in the right spot and to the right depth, and another that machines the tang notch and lockbar tab. If that were the case there would have been fixtures and jigs made along with brass master parts so that everything could be copied. We never just made a one off knife of that complexity because someone wanted one made special. Anything made from scratch was done with the intent to make a bare minimum of 300 knives, and in most cases 500.

Eric

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby americanedgetech » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:33 am

I think everyone understands you points in this post.

I may have expressed myself incorrectly when I said "made" in the CS shop.
I should have said customized or modified.

In any event your knowledge is invaluable. ::handshake::

I learn several things here every day!
Ken Mc.

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I need a pile side scale. THX!

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby ea42 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:02 am

It's always a pleasure ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu:: ::handshake::

I definitely miss those guys and gals, it was the only job I've ever had where the day went by so quickly I wished I could put in a few more hours to get things done, and oftentimes when Jean S. was hanging around finishing up inspections I would. I really got immersed in the work, although those times were spent half working and half talking lol! Wouldn't trade them for anything.

Eric

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby kootenay joe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:01 am

This seller has relisted this knife for $135 still claiming it to be a Canal Street Cutlery knife. I sent the seller the most strongly worded message i have ever sent to an ebay member:
"You have been informed by more than one collector of Schrade/CSC knives that this knife has nothing to do with Canal Street Cutlery. It is a Schrade LB7 on which someone has placed a CSC shield. The value of this knife is in the $20-$30(max.) range.
The first time you listed it in good faith believing it to be a CSC knife. Now that you know it has nothing to do with CSC you are being dishonest by listing it as such.
You have no integrity. Shame on you.
sincerely, roland"

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby americanedgetech » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:45 pm

Surprising... due to the glowing opinion of those that know her.

I hope this works out well.
Ken Mc.

WTB Kershaw 2120 MACHO Lockback Parts knife
I need a pile side scale. THX!

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Re: Canal Street Lockback ????

Postby kootenay joe » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:13 am

Quote: "Surprising... due to the glowing opinion of those that know her"
Yes it is at odds with what those who know the seller have stated. It is possible that this person no longer writes the descriptions. She might have passed the site name to a family member who has lower ethical standards.
kj


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