Case Tested 8308 whittler

[shawneewarrior52]

Greetings,

In 2001 I purchased from what I believed to be a reputable dealer a Case Tested 8308 pocketknife which the seller advertised as having once been a part of the Case Factory Collection, and having been purchased by himself at an auction of at least some of the factory collection knives. I believe that in 1989 Jim Parker sold the Case Factory Collection to Smokey Mountain Knife Works, and SMKW had intended to sell them. Yet, if you read the book The Case Cutlery Dynasty by Brad Lockwood, it is stated in the book that the factory collection was returned to the Case Factory in July of 1996.

Do any of you old timers have knowledge of what happened to the Case Factory Collection after it was acquired by Smokey Mountain Knife Works? Does anyone have knowledge of an auction of at least some of the factory collection knives? This to me is quite a mystery. I have not encountered anyone who states that they have purchased a former Case factory collection knife. Thanks.

[RalphAlsip]

Welcome to AAPK! I don't have any relevant information regarding the Case Factory collection. However, I am very much interested to see pictures of your Case Tested XX 8308.

[osuchem]

Not sure if this helps but they had an 8308 in the auction catalog

[jmh58]

On one of the CASE factory tours I took there was mention that when Jim Parker owned CASE he sold most of their history off the walls there.. I do believe that those are some of the knives you are referring to.. Since.. CASE has recovered a very small percentage of those knives but many were lost and out there.. He sold soooo much of their history it is sickening!!
John

[gsmith7158]

I've got two of those 8364sc knives but I don't believe they were ever in the Case collections.

[Mumbleypeg]

Welcome to AAPK!

Other than that Jim Parker did sell off the Case factory collection and at least some part of it was on display at Smokey Mountain Knife Works, I can’t tell you with authority what happened as I wasn’t present when it happened. That some transaction occurred has been well documented by several sources, including the parties that consummated the transaction. I was told the same thing when I toured the Case factory, and saw the collection myself at SMKW. That collection was re-acquired by Case and can now be viewed at the Zippo/Case museum in Bradford.

I could tell you what I’ve heard from various sources regarding what was/wasn’t included but that would serve no purpose - other than to continue to spread rumors. Maybe someone here knows the truth.

What I can say is if you post some good in-focus pictures of the knife in question, several here can give you a valid honest opinion as to the knife’s authenticity as being a Case from the Tested era (or not).

Ken

[donjr]

Here is one I have, and some info on the 1982 sale/auction, from Jim Parkers own Book. I purchased it in 1990 in Good Faith from a Large Reputable Dealer here in East Tennessee where I live. As you can see, not all of the Factory Collection has been returned to Case. This Knife and Certificate were part of the 1982 Auction (notice the 0000 on the Bolster) and the Certificate Signed by both Jim and John Parker in 1989. So, if the Collection in whole or part was purchased by SMNW in 1989, one would assume they sold parts of it off as well. Also, John Parker, I believe is Jim Parkers brother. But one thing is for sure, there are still parts of the Factory Collection in private hands, and here is your Proof. donjr

[Mumbleypeg]

Ol’ Jim Parker was a slick one wasn’t he? Sold the Case factory collection right off the walls of the Case factory in 1982. Desperate for funds, supposedly had to be done to save Case.

And here we see a knife, a “Prototype” from the “1983 Redbone Trapper Set” that was sold as an authentic part of the Case factory collection.

To be clear, I’m not ragging on you donjr, just marveling at some of the stuff Jim Parker was involved in.

Ken

[peanut740]

Why would that knife be in the factory collection?The collection at the Case factory I have seen are old knives.I have owned a couple of true Case prototypes and they were and are marked on the inside of the liners has such.That 0000 on the bolster looks like one of Parker's tricks like he did with Case Classics.They sold multiples of the same knife with 0,00,000,0000 serial #'s,what does that mean?
Yours may be perfectly right.But when Parkers are involved, I'm always sceptical.

[jlw257]

Roger, I was thinking the same thing. The Case Collection is make up of Older Knives

Maybe wrong too

[knifeaholic]

Why would that knife be in the factory collection?The collection at the Case factory I have seen are old knives.I have owned a couple of true Case prototypes and they were and are marked on the inside of the liners has such.That 0000 on the bolster looks like one of Parker's tricks like he did with Case Classics.They sold multiples of the same knife with 0,00,000,0000 serial #'s,what does that mean?
Yours may be perfectly right.But when Parkers are involved, I'm always sceptical.

The factory collection included many fine old Case knives, but there was a load of JUNK in there too. Various "prototypes" some half finished, with and without PROTO markings.

[olderdogs1]

Ol’ Jim Parker was a slick one wasn’t he? Sold the Case factory collection right off the walls of the Case factory in 1982. Desperate for funds, supposedly had to be done to save Case.

And here we see a knife, a “Prototype” from the “1983 Redbone Trapper Set” that was sold as an authentic part of the Case factory collection.

To be clear, I’m not ragging on you donjr, just marveling at some of the stuff Jim Parker was involved in.

Ken

Parker didn’t acquire Case until 1989 so doubt that he had anything to do with a 1982 Case Factory collection sale. Later of course he sold the factory collection to Smokey Mountain which according to him was part of the down payment for the Case purchase. A lot of folks think he pocketed that money and still had it when Case filed bankruptcy along with Parker in 1990. Doubt we will ever know all the true facts.

Tom

[Knife Nut]

Just as a point of reference, that Tested 8308 (if the same as listed in the Case Factory Collection from SMK) was listed at $725 in the sale catalog.

Paul

[RalphAlsip]

Does the now defunct National Knife Museum factor into this story?

[peanut740]

Why would that knife be in the factory collection?The collection at the Case factory I have seen are old knives.I have owned a couple of true Case prototypes and they were and are marked on the inside of the liners has such.That 0000 on the bolster looks like one of Parker's tricks like he did with Case Classics.They sold multiples of the same knife with 0,00,000,0000 serial #'s,what does that mean?
Yours may be perfectly right.But when Parkers are involved, I'm always sceptical.

The factory collection included many fine old Case knives, but there was a load of JUNK in there too. Various "prototypes" some half finished, with and without PROTO markings.

I saw the collection ca.2005-6.My point being it wouldn't be hard to etch some numbers on the bolster of some common knife and make a so called certificate of authenticity and sell it for a premium.

[Mumbleypeg]

Tom you're right - my mistake. Should have said 1989 not 1982. My point is still the same which is I'm amazed by all the stuff Parker has done. He changed our hobby for sure. Some good, some not so much.

Ken

[donjr]

Here is one I have, and some info on the 1982 sale/auction, from Jim Parkers own Book. I purchased it in 1990 in Good Faith from a Large Reputable Dealer here in East Tennessee where I live. As you can see, not all of the Factory Collection has been returned to Case. If this Knife and Certificate were part of the 1982 Auction (notice the 0000 on the Bolster) and the Certificate Signed by both Jim and John Parker in 1989. So, if the Collection in whole or part was purchased by SMNW in 1989, one would assume they sold parts of it off as well. Also, John Parker, I believe is Jim Parkers brother. But one thing is for sure, there are still parts of the Factory Collection in private hands, and here is your Proof. donjr

[donjr]

Thanks Steve for your info. Here is my next question about the Case Factory Collection. Were there additions (Knives) added to the collection after the Auction of 1982? And just for the record, I purchased this Knife in 1990, and for what I paid for it then, is well worth just using it as an EDC today. Authentic part of the Factory Collection / Proto or Not, it still looks Cool hanging in my Knife Room. donjr

[knifeaholic]

Why would that knife be in the factory collection?The collection at the Case factory I have seen are old knives.I have owned a couple of true Case prototypes and they were and are marked on the inside of the liners has such.That 0000 on the bolster looks like one of Parker's tricks like he did with Case Classics.They sold multiples of the same knife with 0,00,000,0000 serial #'s,what does that mean?
Yours may be perfectly right.But when Parkers are involved, I'm always sceptical.

The factory collection included many fine old Case knives, but there was a load of JUNK in there too. Various "prototypes" some half finished, with and without PROTO markings.

I saw the collection ca.2005-6.My point being it wouldn't be hard to etch some numbers on the bolster of some common knife and make a so called certificate of authenticity and sell it for a premium.

I agree Roger, I guess that was the point I was trying to make as well. Roughly finished knives made in the Case model shop to test configurations etc. become "rare prototypes".

[knifeaholic]

Thanks Steve for your info. Here is my next question about the Case Factory Collection. Were there additions (Knives) added to the collection after the Auction of 1982? And just for the record, I purchased this Knife in 1990, and for what I paid for it then, is well worth just using it as an EDC today. Authentic part of the Factory Collection / Proto or Not, it still looks Cool hanging in my Knife Room. donjr

There were two distinctly different Case "factory collection" sales.

The first one was an auction at a NKCA (Knoxville ?) show in Nov 1982. That was a load of nice mint knives that Case had been hanging on to mainly as warranty replacement knives but also some other rare knives. There was a catalog produced for this auction (I believe without any photos) but I have never gotten a copy of it.

The next one was by Parker after he bought Case in 89. Parker somehow finagled a transfer of the knives to SMKW, at the time half owned by his brother. Full color catalog was put together, with VERY high prices. IIRC only a few of these knives sold at the high asking prices and some of the rest ended up being bought back by Case from SMKW after Case was bought by Zippo.

[peanut740]

Does the now defunct National Knife Museum factor into this story?

No,I don't think so.That is another can of worms.

[Mumbleypeg]

My point as well. This is IMHO where Parker and a couple of others took the hobby. Possibly would have got there eventually anyway but he was leading the way. There are a lot of collectors attracted to “made as collectibles”, “one-of-a-kind prototypes”, and “limited run commemorative” knives. That’s keeping some knife manufacturers in business, so just because they don’t appeal to me personally who am I to say it’s wrong or bad? It’s all good, so in that regard I guess Parker was a visionary.

But simply stamping or engraving a large number of knives all with “00” or “01” and printing up carefully worded Certificates of Authenticity to go with them is not IMHO an honest, above board way to do it.

Ken

[donjr]

Thanks Again Steve,
Where can I get one of those Catalogs? donjr

[Mumbleypeg]

Both the 1982 auction and the 1989 sale are documented to some extent in the book CASE: The First 100 Years by James S. Giles. You can sometimes find a copy on eBay. Within its 192 total pages the book includes 48 pages of excellent photographs of much, but not all of the factory collection that went to SMKW.

The picture posted previously in this thread by member osuchem is from this book. Here’s a sampling of the content.

Ken

About the 1982 auction

About the 1989 sale

[shawneewarrior52]

Thanks to all of you who responded to my inquiry regarding the 8308. I learned a great deal with your help. I would love to post pictures but am not tech savvy enough to even begin it. If anyone has a true scholar's interest in the knife, I might endeavor to take some digital pictures from which to make prints and send them via snail mail. Possibly.

For the interest of everyone on the forum, I purchased this knife from Charles Mattox (deceased April 2012) and his Mattox Knife Company in July of 2001 for $695.00 plus $5.00 shipping. Gleaning from old posts on the internet, it seems that Charlie was a well respected dealer. This knife has an extremely light (even an etched appearance) stamp which bothered me from day one that I acquired it. Because of this I sent the knife to Jim Parker in February of 2002 for authentication. Jim not only authenticated the knife as being 100% correct, but stated that at the time (Tested era) Case used those stamp dies until they were literally worn out, so that a very light stamp was not uncommon. Jim also clearly stated in his letter of authentication that my knife is the very same knife pictured in the photos of the Case Factory Collection (Case The First 100 Years). He also noted that indeed Charlie Mattox had purchased this factory collection knife at auction.

Knife Nut, I found especially interesting your post that the 8308 knife was listed in a sale catalog for $725.00. I have never seen or heard of a list of sale prices, though I do have a copy of the SMKW publication where they advertised the knives (nice pictures of the collection) as coming for sale.

One further comment. When I purchased this knife from Mattox Knife Company, there was never any mention of a certificate of authenticity. A true Newbie's mistake on my part. I certainly look forward to any further posts that you all may have. I love following these threads of knife history until they are completely unraveled, if possible.