Edge holding..old vs new

[hard.times.lures]

I am interested in seeing if any of you have experience with PRE 1970 CARBON knives (not stainless) comparing the older models vs current, later model carbon knives in edge holding. I.e. do the older, pre 1970 Carbon knives hold a better edge than current carbon knives?

Thank you kindly for your replies.

Blessings, Bryan

[Mumbleypeg]

Not that I can tell. No scientific data, just a knife user and a fan of carbon steel. Case, Western, and Schrade are the ones I have the most experience with, and they all had good steel. Of course Case is the only one still making carbon steel knives. (Yes I know you can still buy a new Schrade - they're not real Schrades.)

Some here have opined that modern day Case carbon steel spots/rusts more readily than older ones. I'm personally of the opinion that frequency of use may be a factor in that observation. A frequently used carbon steel knife isn't likely to rust IMHO, but will over time develop a nice patina, which most used older knives already have. That patina is a natural rust inhibitor.

I haven't noticed a difference in edge retention between Case XX and current day Case carbon steel knives. Don't have enough experience with pre-XX era Case to comment - I have them but don't carry and use them. My present EDC rotation includes a XX U.S.A. (1965-69) 63047, a 1970s dotted 6318, a 2010 3318, a Schrade N.Y. U.S.A. 881Y, and an old Premier Lifetime H53. All have carbon steel blades.

Ken

[FRJ]

Most of my experience is with old knives. I do have new knives and I sharpen them.
I also have some stainless steel knives, although very few of them and I sharpen them as well.
I will say I have noticed one thing about all my knives. They were designed to cut if properly sharpened.
How long they stay sharp I can not tell. I don't care because before you finish oiling yours I can sharpen mine.
Edge holding depends a lot on blade design.
I believe Ken is right when he says our good ol' American knives had good steel and that patina is a natural rust inhibitor.

[kootenay joe]

I have read that 'older' knives have blades with an Rc in low 50's. Today's GEC knives with 1095 steel have an Rc about 58. I had thought that the harder steel will edge hold longer as 'harder' = less dulling per each use.
Is this correct ? Or is Rc not connected to edge holding ?
I do know that the softer old blades sharpen up more readily than the new 1095 blades.
kj

[Quick Steel]

My understanding has long been that, all things being equal, a harder steel will require less sharpening that a softer steel. The trade off is that the harder steel will require more effort to sharpen than the softer. D2 might be an example of this; takes more effort to sharpen but does last.

[treefarmer]

I bought a 10 dot SS 6254 Trapper new in '70 or '71. I almost wore the clip blade out trying to sharpen it. I was so glad when the pivot pin broke. It stayed in a drawer for many years until I joined AAPK and found out about Case's repair. My few knives at that time were all carbon except for the SS Trapper and I had no problem keeping them sharp. All that said, I could sharpen a carbon steel blade but I couldn't get an edge on the stainless blade that was satisfactory. That caused me to shy away from the Queens for a long time. Now that I've learned a bit over the years I'll agree with those who say the carbon is easier/quicker to sharpen and I'll agree that most stainless blade will hold an edge longer. It is almost a "pleasure" to dress up an old carbon blade to where it will shave a little hair from your arm!
Treefarmer

[Colonel26]

My purely subjective opinion is that my old XX carbon blades seem to hold a better edge than my new CASE knives. Now it could be that some of them have been sharpened down some and have more meat behind the cutting edge. Then again, it could just be that I like them better and have “barn blindness”.

I’m right the opposite of Brother Phillip about the stainless. I never thought they held an edge as well. But that could also be because I used to sharpen them at too low an angle. I believe that the softer stainless cans handle as low and angle as carbon steel blades. Changing my sharpening angle has made a difference.

The newer knives with 1095, I don’t prefer their cutting edge. I like a toothier edge and I don’t think the 1095 gets as toothy.

For what it’s worth, the best all around edge holding knives I personally have used are old Weatern carbon steel. It seems to be harder than CASE XX era and the ones I have had holds the edge VERY well.

This, of course, is just my opinion. YMMV.

[kootenay joe]

What about the primary grind ? Were old blades ground thinner or thicker (in general) than the same blade profile is today ? Does the higher Rc of today's blade allow for a thinner primary grind and thus be a better slicer ?
It always has seemed to me that the Queen blades actually got thicker when they switched to D2, which is opposite of what i would have expected.
Edge holding, old vs new is a more complex interplay than it first seems. It involves hardness of temper, thickness of primary grind, size of steel particles, and likely other factors as well.
Good topic !
kj

[Colonel26]

What about the primary grind ? Were old blades ground thinner or thicker (in general) than the same blade profile is today ? Does the higher Rc of today's blade allow for a thinner primary grind and thus be a better slicer ?
It always has seemed to me that the Queen blades actually got thicker when they switched to D2, which is opposite of what i would have expected.
Edge holding, old vs new is a more complex interplay than it first seems. It involves hardness of temper, thickness of primary grind, size of steel particles, and likely other factors as well.
Good topic !
kj

KJ o think you make a good point. IMO lots of factors come into play. I think some steels perform better or worse depending on their heat treatment etc... And I think you’re right also about the blade grind and shape. I’m the end it seems that making a good cutting blade that holds an edge well is part science, part art, and I’m convinced part VooDoo. Lol.

[Lansky1]

sorry - misread the OP's post - discussion for carbon steel only ... deleted