Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

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keithw
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Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by keithw »

Since we haven't had much action in my favorite forum in a while, I thought of a few questions.

As I understand it, Olbertz took over the Carl Schlieper knife production at some point.
Questions about this:

1. About what year did this happen?
2. Did Olbertz take over the Carl Schlieper production facility, or move it to a different existing facility?
3. Did Olbertz make knives before acquiring the Carl Schlieper name?

One thing that makes me curious is that I've recently seen a couple of knives with the Olbertz wings and crown tang stamp that appear to be from the 1960s. I didn't think Olbertz took over from Carl Schlieper until the early 1980s.

Just curious ::shrug::
Keith
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by Paladin »

Keith,
As you know, I know little about the modern Eyes. It is my impression that about the last of the 'old' Eyes came about in the mid-to-late 1980s. Maybe Joe Dobbs will come in to help us on this.
The way I conceive of this is a little different from what your questions reflect in that I always viewed the Schlieper firm had ceased production and began to contract knives made by Olbertz.
I guess the real question is, 'does the Schlieper firm still exist?' If so, is is managed or run by Olbertz?
Again, my area of interest and knowledge does not extend this more recent era of Eye Brand knives. You might try to get in touch with Mark Cruse at JENCO SALES and see if he can offer any info. His family has historically been associated with Schlieper.
It will be interesting to see what info comes out in relation to your good questions.

Ray
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prairiedog
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by prairiedog »

Happy to see some activity in this forum again...and I'm very interested in the questions Keith has raised.
I also have a question to add...for several months now local traders in my neck of the woods have insinuated that the production of Eye brand knives has reduced greatly or either shut down. A few have even claimed that the Olbertz factory no longer makes any of the brands that they are so well known for making. Of course, I'm aware that Bulldog knives have not been made there for quite some time and Fight n' Rooster has quit any kind of production...but what about other brands? I'd say some of this is local speculation...but I am curious to the status of Olbertz production (especially Eye Brand)...and if any of this is factual...would it be considered temporary? I would really be disheartened to know for certain that the quality knives this factory has produced might eventually be phased out to a cheaper made production.
.....or.....is this just local traders trying to promote the sales of their Olbertz made knives and getting others to buy into it??? :)
I do know that some major knife retailers seemed to have several Eye knives on back order...I'm just not sure why the basis for the holdup??
And thanks again Keith and Paladin for reviving the forum. Looking forward to future posts!

Perry
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keithw
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by keithw »

Perry,
I've heard the same things about Olbertz. But, there is a steady stream of new Eye Brand knives coming from a seller on Ebay, Post Oak Knife Co. They seem to now be the US distributer for Eye Brand knives.
Their website is http://eye-brand.com/
Also I occasionally check the Olbertz website, http://carl-schlieper.de/
which seems to be updated pretty regularly.
I've raised questions before about some of the jigged bone handles looking Chinese on the new Eyes, but I hope I'm wrong. But, I guess they could be outsourcing the handles and still be making everything else in house. Since they farm out much of the assembly to local people who work from their homes, I guess they maintain a small footprint, but it's weird that there's so little information available about them.

Thanks!
Keith
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prairiedog
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by prairiedog »

Thanks Keith! Your links have answered my question...but I too am a little suspicious of the handles on a few Eyes I've seen. Luckily, they're easily recognized...and I cringe every time I see one. It adds just a tad bit of tarnish to a very reputable name.
Personally, that's why I will always be drawn more to the earlier made knives.

Really interested in knowing more about the Schlieper/Olbertz connection and their current relationship/ownership..from who's in charge of the ideas on the drawing board...to the contracting...to the detailed production and distribution facts.
Maybe it's time for Mr. Dobbs to make that trip again and give us another informative article! ::nod::

Thanks again for the links Keith!

Perry
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by EyeBJoe »

It is my understanding that Mark Cruse (Knife Importers, Austin, TX) retained the exclusive import rights to Eye Brand and Carl Schlieper knives in the U.S. until the very early 1990's, perhaps up to the eventual bankruptcy of Carl Schlieper in 1993. In an effort to address some of the questions that have been posted as to the Eye Brand cutlery, I made a telephone call to Mark Cruse of Jenco Sales and Knife Importers in Austin (Manchaca), TX yesterday to try to get some clarity as to the production of the cutlery over perhaps the past 25 years or so. The summary of my conversation is submitted below.

In the latter part of 1989 through most of 1990 the U.S. economy and particularly that of the southwestern U.S. was continuing in recession, represented by large bank failures, the Savings and Loan Crisis, etc. As a result the general market for knives was also depressed and sales were dismal for Knife Importers. Added to the problems for Mark Cruse was the fact that the foreign exchange rate of the U.S. dollar against the German Mark was completely unfavorable to him. In addition, his agreement with Carl Schlieper was based upon an annual knife order that included specific delivery dates for the knives. Schlieper would not adjust their shipment terms and continued to ship knives as per the annual agreement. Cruse's shelves were overloaded with knives. Both of these occurrences were a double blow on top of the economic conditions that resulted in Cruse negotiating his exit as the exclusive importer of the knives. Some time later however, in an effort to stay connected to the cutlery he formed a three way agreement with Clarence Risener and an unnamed third party for the three persons to partner and continue to import and distribute Eye Brand and Carl Schlieper knives. Unfortunately for Mark the third person backed out of the agreement and sold his interest to Clarence Risener. This made Risener in control of 67% of the deal and soon Mark was "out". Risener continued in control of the U.S. import of the knives through the 90's and most of the 2000's.

As to the question of Olbertz entry into the history, Mark indicated that as early as 1990 Olbertz was contracting with Schlieper to produce certain patterns of knives. He was unsure which specific patterns were involved. With the eventual bankruptcy of Schlieper in 1993 the door was then open for Olbertz to take over (purchase?) the Eye Brand and other Carl Schlieper Trade Marks. Of additional interest, Mark revealed that he is currently in an agreement with Post Oak Knives such that Cruse represents the Wholesale component of the continuation of importing the cutlery and Post Oak Knives is the Retail portion. Apparently Risener somewhere along the way lost his rights to the cutlery. Therefore, Mark and the owner(s) of Post Oak Knives are in charge of specifying pattern types, handle materials, etc. in ordering the knives of Schlieper, which are still being produced by Olbertz. In my further research online it appears that the Olbertz operation is in a different location in Solingen than the Burgerlandstrasse site that was the location for decades.

I specifically asked Mark about the possibility of the Chinese being involved and he stated that the knives of Carl Schlieper and Eye Brand are the products of Solingen, Germany with no Chinese parts or labor involved. He did not know how low quality handle materials or other parts were possibly showing up on the cutlery unless someone was counterfeiting the knife or knives.

Gents, I have included as much as I could transfer on paper as I visited with Cruse. I was writing as fast as I could, but I think I have captured and answered as best possible some of the questions in this thread. Hope it helps.

Joe D.
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by Paladin »

Joe,
Thanks so very much for filling us in on this. You went to a lot of trouble for which I thank you.

Ray
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prairiedog
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by prairiedog »

Those are the details we were in search of...thank you Joe for your time and effort in answering our questions. We're fortunate to have you as a member. ::tu::

Perry
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by keithw »

Joe,

Thanks so much for shedding light on the subject!
Keith
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Re: Olbertz / Carl Schlieper

Post by kootenay joe »

Quote: "I specifically asked Mark about the possibility of the Chinese being involved and he stated that the knives of Carl Schlieper and Eye Brand are the products of Solingen, Germany with no Chinese parts or labor involved".
I too have noticed that the most recent Eye Brand knives have handles that look different from those of a few years ago.
Knife companies all seem to be secretive about who made what and for whom and they have been for the last 100 years. Olbertz might very well be using parts from China and not telling anyone. German manufacturing laws seem very lax as the only requirement for a knife to marked "Solingen" is to have passed through Solingen.
A few years ago there was a long thread about this in the BRL forum at BF. "Germania" posted that some of the German knife manufacturers are lobbying the government to have the import rules tightened up so that only knives truly manufactured in Solingen can be marked "Solingen".
I say believe your own eyes and hands if you have a new recent Eye Brand knife, to tell you if the handle material is the same or different from your older Eye Brand knives. i.e. "read the knife" not the markings or what the company says and wants you to believe.
kj
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