Schrade 972 Stag Congress Unicorn

[JohnR]

Jumped on a BIN that was just listed Thursday, felt I was gambling at the time, pictures were so dark that I could not tell it was stag, I tried to find other examples and could only find 1 other worn one so I was thinking maybe fake but it was a nice looking Congress so decided to gamble.

Here is what showed up, a stunning stag handles Schrade 4 blade Congress, as far as I know Schrade made very few Congress knives especially 4 blade. Knife is close to unused with original finishes.

What do all the Schrade experts think, real or not?

[tongueriver]

Excellent authentic stag knife. Great catch! I never saw it; Glad to get a glimpse now!

[Mustanger]

Man, that is a really sweet Congress! Great find!
What is the closed length?

[JohnR]

Thanks guys, it's a shade over 3 1/2", I should have put that information in the original post.

[Doc B]

That stag is beautiful !!!

[Mountain Man Knives]

Well isn't that a sweet looking Quality Congress ~ I like the pattern Number ~ Nice Stag Scales for Sure ~ & Full Blades ~ Looks like you came up "ACES"

[Gunsil]

Look closely at the "milled liners" on the back of the knife. These are not true milled liners, the design was put in after the knife was assembled as can be seen by the design running onto the bolsters. I have seen a few Schrades with this design on the back of the liners and they had come from the old faker Jim Parker and a couple that didn't come from him at least as known to me. Do any of you guys think this putting a design in the liners after the knife was assembled was a factory option?? It sure looks aftermarket to me.

[tongueriver]

I would like to see Eric chime in on this question. I had read some years ago that this work was done by a lady for Schrade in her home.

[JohnR]

I would like to see Eric chime in on this question. I had read some years ago that this work was done by a lady for Schrade in her home.

Maybe after the knife was buffed they would hand engrave any of the milling that had been buffed smooth for this knife
I do have a 2 OT where the milling was buffed smooth.
Thanks for all the comments so far, this is why I started a separate thread on this knife because I'm not sure about originality.

[doglegg]

JohnR, I like it! A great looking knife.

[ea42]

That jimping was done on the liners after the knives were assembled even during the Schrade Cut. Co days. According to Dave Swinden it was actually done by a woman who worked for Schrade out of her home. She'd set the machine (actually a mechanical roller if I recall correctly) up on her kitchen table to do the knives. Old George Schrade probably invented the darned thing lol! That's totally legit, and I have a number of knives from Schrade Cut Co that are done exactly the same way. Fantastic old knife there, that stag is just perfect!

By the way I don't think Jim Parker had much to do with the old Schrades, he was too busy messing around with Case knives

Eric

[JohnR]

That jimping was done on the liners after the knives were assembled even during the Schrade Cut. Co days. According to Dave Swinden it was actually done by a woman who worked for Schrade out of her home. She'd set the machine (actually a mechanical roller if I recall correctly) up on her kitchen table to do the knives. Old George Schrade probably invented the darned thing lol! That's totally legit, and I have a number of knives from Schrade Cut Co that are done exactly the same way. Fantastic old knife there, that stag is just perfect!

By the way I don't think Jim Parker had much to do with the old Schrades, he was too busy messing around with Case knives

Eric

Thank you for all the information Eric, much appreciated. Do you have any idea on how scarce this knife is, I can't find the pattern number in any reference I have or much online.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Excellent authentic stag knife. Great catch! I never saw it; Glad to get a glimpse now!

x2


John I don't know where you found that, but goodness, what a find!

[JohnR]

Excellent authentic stag knife. Great catch! I never saw it; Glad to get a glimpse now!

x2


John I don't know where you found that, but goodness, what a find!

Excellent authentic stag knife. Great catch! I never saw it; Glad to get a glimpse now!

Thanks guys, I was hoping it was legit but was far from sure as I've made a few purchases before and been wrong, my knowledge while good is far from what some of you have accumulated over the years, I really appreciate your input.

[Gunsil]

Thanks for the explanation Eric, but I am a suspicious character and still don't like it. Why would Schrade, with a HUGE superbly equipped factory in Walden with highly skilled workers need to send knives out to "some woman" to do this work at home. I have had a lot of beautiful Schrade Cuts and Waldens with very nice original milled liners and they all look much nicer than this after knife was made roller application. Just plain makes no sense and when no sense is made the story likely has a problem. The OP knife is a true beauty unto itself, but I don't like the treatment to the back liners.

[kootenay joe]

The stag is the old Schrade Cut Co stag and was rarely used even by SCC. I cannot recall seeing a S-W knife with this stag. It certainly is a rare knife.
As to why S-W would contract out the milling to a woman working in her kitchen, "Chase" might have some insight into this. His mother and uncles worked for Schrade (& Schrade-Walden ?). From ancedotes he has posted, Schrade sounds a bit like a family rather than 'all business'. Being in a small town, everyone knew everyone else. Schrade might have been helping the lady out, single woman, 5 kids to feed, etc. Small town businesses in Canada used to have a local 'social conscious' and i'm sure small town New England was (is) the same.
If this is all my imagination i hope Chase will set things straight.
kj

[JAMESC41001]

John that is some knife! I am no expert but I will say I knew Dave Swinden personally, many times I would ask him a question and he had no problem telling me he did not know. I can tell you if he did remember something specifically you could take it to the bank. He was the heart and soul of Schrade for many years. You would be surprised how many things got done around there. Eric has spent a lot of time searching for and acquiring stag schrades and his collection is top shelf. I don’t know if it was a regular production knife but with the info Eric supplied I think if anything it confirms this is surely from Schrade.

[ea42]

Thanks for the explanation Eric, but I am a suspicious character and still don't like it. Why would Schrade, with a HUGE superbly equipped factory in Walden with highly skilled workers need to send knives out to "some woman" to do this work at home. I have had a lot of beautiful Schrade Cuts and Waldens with very nice original milled liners and they all look much nicer than this after knife was made roller application. Just plain makes no sense and when no sense is made the story likely has a problem. The OP knife is a true beauty unto itself, but I don't like the treatment to the back liners.

Well if that's what the former president of Schrade told me I tend to believe it. If you've got a problem with it then by all means don't buy those Schrades, I'm not stopping you. This was a woman who had retired from Schrade but was very good at jimping. They didn't do every knife that way, only special orders, so it makes sense to me not to keep someone on the payroll to have him/her work only occasionally. Those were piece workers back then, they got paid by the piece, not the hour, and exactly when they did it didn't really matter as long as the job was done by a certain day. Most of the old New England knife factories worked that way back then. And most all of them did the jimping when the knife was finished. It was the last thing done before it was shipped out. You couldn't do it before a knife was assembled because when you hafted the backs you'd grind it right off. Some overrun was commonplace, I've seen many knives where it runs into the springs, liners, and bolsters. It wasn't a perfectly executed process every time, it would just take too long. Frankly I think they ran it into the bolsters purposely. Here are some examples, and they are all legit knives, some of which never even left Walden.

First up is an old Ulster, jimping runs into the spring and even into the cap on the bottom right:

Next up are two stag Schrade Cut Co four blade senators, jimping goes into the stag and springs:

Next is a Shapleigh DE bone handled knife made by Schrade Cut Co, cuts into the bone

Next is a Schrade Cut Co stockman, this one went from an the factory to an employees collection, never touched by the public so to speak:

This is a Schrade 2OT circa 1959 just to show that the practice continued, this came right out of its original wrapper:

Eric

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Those are very nice knives Eric. Thanks for showing them and providing us with inside info regarding the stamped liners. Interesting history.

Do you know if the same woman did the stamping on liners like some of the little 2 3/4" stockman variants? I have quite a few of the the pre swinden ones and they all have stamped liners.

[ea42]

Paul I have no idea. She lived in Walden so I doubt she followed them to Ellenville. I don't even know how old she was during the time period Dave mentioned. If she was retired then I would think she was a bit up there in years. The machine went with Schrade though, Dave said that he had kept it stored up in the mezzanine in the new schrade factory in Ellenville. He kept a bunch of the old machinery through the years with the intention of someday opening a museum at the factory, but that went out the window after the bankruptcy. What they used on the 2OT's in the later fifties was a different setup though. Same process but different machinery.

Eric

[peanut740]

That's one dandy knife John.Great stag,looks a lot like what Remington used.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Thanks Eric.

It's a shame that Daves factory museum never came to fruition because of the closing. I often wonder what schrade would be doing in today's market had they stayed in business.

[treefarmer]

Read with interest about this fine looking congress and then the posts concerning the jimping. I got this old Shrade Walden 861 from dogleg a while back and it is a pleasant knife to handle. The jimping is on all three liners and all four bolsters, it really dresses this ol' gal up! Maybe this one went across the table of the lady mentioned.
Treefarmer

[kootenay joe]

Wow Eric, those are just perfect knives. I don't have even one 'Schrade' that compares. However you have worked for Schrade and have done a huge amount to preserve and document the history so you absolutely deserve the best of Schrade knives.
Do you know why Schrade-Walden had so few stag 'runs' ? Were they slow to sell back then ? Or, did S-W not have much stag and did not want to acquire more ?
We love stag now but maybe that is not how people felt in 1950's & '60's ?
kj

[JohnR]

Thank you all for the comments and information on this knife, Gunsil, thanks for questioning the jimping, I did not notice what you did notice and it generated a good discussion on these rare Schrades.