Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Schrade Cutlery Company was founded in 1904 by George Schrade, and his brothers Jacob and William Schrade. In 1946 Imperial Knife Associated Companies, (IKAC; an association of Ulster Knife Co and Imperial Knife Co) purchased controlling interest in Schrade Cut Co and changed the name to Schrade Walden Cutlery. In 1973 the name was changed to Schrade Cutlery. In 2004 Schrade closed due to bankruptcy.

This forum is dedicated to the knives that are the legacy of this company. This forum is not the place to discuss the replica knives currently being imported using the Schrade name.
kootenay joe
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 8228
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby kootenay joe » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:32 pm

The Schrade Lake & Walker folder has 4 'varieties: 2 Schrade USa & 2 'Schrade' Offshore (China ? Taiwan ?) both of these come with either a 'regular' stainless steel blade or a higher end steel blade (ATS-34 ?) There might actually be 8 variations as each of these 4 might have had either a plain edge or a combo edge like these i am showing.
Here are 2 Schrade USA Lake & Walker folders. They appear identical except one has a shield saying "Limited Edition". Is this just 'marketing' or is there something special about it ? I think the higher end steel knives have "ATS-34" on the tang ?
Second knife pair are Third Generation C641. One has scroll worked bolsters and no blade etch. The other has plain bolsters and a "Third Gen" blade etch.
Is the scrolled bolster knife part of a special edition set ? Should it have a blade etch ?. As far as collectibility is it considered to be simply an example of C641 ? or is there a special significance because of the bolster work ?
Thanks for your help,
kj
Attachments
IMGP3547.JPG
IMGP3548.JPG
IMGP3549.JPG
IMGP3550.JPG

User avatar
Chase
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: NorthWest Maryland

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby Chase » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:20 pm

Roland,

I cannot answer your questions on the Lake & Walkers, and that is the First and Only Scroll worked bolster 641 I have seen.

Is it possible that the scroll work was done by somebody after the fact? I am not sure that Schrade did the scroll work, although I have been wrong before!

Thank you for posting them

Tom

User avatar
tongueriver
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4255
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby tongueriver » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:13 pm

In 2000-2001, Schrade sold 1000 Lake & Walker knives with BG42 blades. The blade was not serrated. Listed at $100 trade and $200 retail.
The Schrade D'holder with a BG242 blade and stag handle, sold for $200 retail in 2000 also. A display "SLWD" with the two knives with matching numbers sold for $400 retail in 2000. The first 500 knives were the more valuable very limited issue. The later L&W knives had the more familiar 440C stainless steel blades and were serrated.
A far as the 641 goes, the engraved bolsters have identical engraving as an LB-7 which I own, which was specifically marketed by Schrade as coming from their "Custom Shop," with paperwork to suit and a fancy sheath. Nickel silver furniture instead of brass. That's all I know.
D'HL&W1.jpg

kootenay joe
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 8228
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby kootenay joe » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:32 pm

Calvin, how can a person know now if a plain blade USA Schrade L&W has BG42 steel or the standard stainless steel ? Is "BG42" marked on back tang ?
kj

User avatar
tongueriver
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4255
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby tongueriver » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:39 pm

I am going to guess here and say that there will be a tiny serial number on the spine for all those which had BG42 steel. And there were possibly over-run knives for warranty replacements, etc., that may also have had BG42 steel. My guess; that's all it is.

User avatar
tongueriver
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4255
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby tongueriver » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:18 pm

More, a magazine hype article released in 2000:
Schrade Builds Hot-Selling, Custom-Designed Knives
by Roger Combs
Custom-designed, factory-produced knives are a hot trend in the industry. Two new offerings from Imperial Schrade are destined to be top money-makers for dealers.
The new Schrade D'Holder Millennium is a fixed-blade hunter, the inspiration of well-known custom knifemaker D'Alton Holder of Peoria, Ariz. The Millennium provides customers an opportunity to own one of the world's finest knives by a real gentleman of knife-making, at a price well below what Holder's knives usually bring.
The second introduction is a joint effort by Schrade and custom knifemakers Ron Lake of Eugene, Ore., and Michael Walker of Taos, N.M. The new Schrade Lake & Walker folder, dubbed Tough Lock, is designed for the customer who demands innovation, blended with cutting edge technology, features and materials.
Exceptional Fixed Blade
The Schrade D'Holder Millennium knife has a full-tang blade of BG42 steel with a handle of Sambar stag. The blade is 3 3/4 inches long and the knife measures 8 inches overall. The sheath is fine premium leather with a basketweave design.
The limited edition Millennium hunting knife has a suggested retail price of $200. Holder commented that his own custom models would sell for more than twice the price. Retailers may ask more for the first serial-numbered limited production of 1,000. A production run of the Millennium using 440A stainless steel is scheduled for later in 2000.
The inspiration for the D'Holder Millennium design dates back to 1976 and one of the custom maker's students. Unfortunately, the student was later killed in a hunting accident. In 1990, Holder reexamined the student's design and was convinced the knife had to be made.
At about the same time, Schrade president Walter Gardiner was looking for a custom knifemaker who had the ability to blend materials and design a knife that could actually become part of its owner. Gardiner was convinced that Holder, who also is past president of the Knifemakers Guild, was the man to design a flawless, fixed-blade knife for the serious hunter and collector.
Innovative Folder
The Lake & Walker Tough Lock features a newly patented locking mechanism. The innovative lock is a major selling point for dealers. The lock's radiused, arc-shaped design permits maximum surface contact with the blade's tang. The tang's precision bevel insures the lock's effectiveness. Dealers, while demonstrating the mechanism to customers, should mention that the more the knife is used, the stronger the lock becomes. Another safety enhancement is the tiny sliding safety switch at the top of the bolster.
"The design turned out better than I had anticipated," said co-designer Ron Lake. "I opened and closed the folder thousands of times, but it never showed any sign of wear."
The new lock is one of those, "Why didn't we think of this before?" designs. It's simple, logical and solid. Customers are sure to want to handle the knife and open and close the blade. They'll be impressed with the design.
The blade of this limited production folder is BG42 steel. The metal was first used in the aerospace industry for parts like jet engine bearings. As a blade steel, it offers maximum toughness, corrosion-resistance, great sharpness and edge-holding abilities. It's no surprise that BG42 steel is used by many of the foremost custom knifemakers. According to both Lake and Holder, BG42 is more difficult to work with, requiring diamond-belt sharpening, but it's extremely tough.
The Tough Lock's handle is made of a new material called Zylite, a combination of Zytel and Kevlar. The new blend offers high-tensile strength and rigidity, light weight and flexibility.
All the pin, screw, back spacer and ferrule components are titanium coated for corrosion resistance and enhanced appearance. The pocket clip is also titanium coated. The 2 7/8-inch Schrade Lake & Walker blade features a deeply etched dual logo. The knife measures 4 inches when closed.
The suggested retail price is $200, certainly a bargain for buyers, and sure to bring new customers into your store. After the first 1,000 limited production run, Schrade plans to produce a less expensive version using 440A stainless steel blades.
Schrade Support
"Dealers are encouraged to order both new models for their customers," said Gardiner. "Each may have the same serial number, if desired. Collectors will love it.
"Schrade has the strength of its distribution system for these new knives. We think they will be very popular."
To help dealers who are handling the new knife designs, Schrade has established a strong referral program, as well as a commitment to heavy advertising in trade and consumer magazines. It is expected that the limited edition production will generate additional floor traffic for dealers and lead to greater sales of the more standard Schrade knives.
"Mike Walker and I are rather well known in Europe," said Lake. "We think these new knives will be quite popular in Europe as well as in Asia."
Said Gardiner, "If these new knives are as successful as we hope, there will he more such designs from these three custom knifemakers in the future."

User avatar
tongueriver
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4255
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby tongueriver » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:22 pm

This Schrade flyer reiterates the fact that the serrated version had SCHRADE+ steel instead of the earlier limited version with smooth edged blade of BG42.
SLW2 flyer.jpg

User avatar
LRV
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 12:53 am
Location: NH
Contact:

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby LRV » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:12 am

The 641 looks to be from the Special editions group in 1993.
Attachments
scan0004.jpg
scan0005.jpg
“A knife in a man’s hand is as precious as a diamond necklace on a woman’s neck” - Michael Mirando I.S.C.

User avatar
tongueriver
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4255
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby tongueriver » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:04 pm

Bingo! Thank you, Larry!

kootenay joe
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 8228
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby kootenay joe » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:32 pm

Thanks to all for this help, esp Calvin & Larry.
The 3rd Gen's came with a sheath that runs parallel to your belt. I think i have seen one of these sheaths with a fancy pattern pressed into the leather.
Maybe the scrolled bolster C641 went with this sheath ?
As for the first 1000 L&W with the BG42 steel (SLW-1 ?) if all these were made then there must be some 'out there' to find. I have been looking for one on ebay as an auction for many years but so far have not been able to ID one; i.e. there might have been a BG42 auctioned that i did not recognize as having BG42.
If someone has a Schrade L&W with BG42 steel i would like to see some pictures, or at least one picture, of it.
kj

User avatar
tongueriver
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4255
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby tongueriver » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:08 pm

The first 500 were in sets with the D'Holder fixed blade, with matching serial #s, in this case #281, stamped into the spine of both knives.
$(KGrHqIOKi!E6kdrUnruBO)prG5+9!~~60_3.jpg
Lake & Walker 281001.jpg
Lake & Walker 281002.jpg
SDH 1 set 1 of 500.jpg

kootenay joe
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 8228
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:07 pm

Thanks Calvin. The L&W does say "First Production Run" so this can be used to ID those with BG42 steel.
kj

User avatar
Darksev
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:07 pm
Location: NE Ohio
Contact:

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby Darksev » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:45 am

Those L&W folders are something special. Especially the limited run. Ron Lake and Michael Walker are about as legendary as you get in modern knife circles (with Mr. Walker essentially inventing the modern liner-lock used on thousands of knives to this day, not to mention inspiring the careers of men like Bob Terzuola and Ernest Emerson)

BG42 is a pretty crazy steel too. Essentially a high purity, stainless version of 51200. It made for a blade that polished extremely well, took a fine edge and performed great - IMO it was a better steel than it's contemporaries (154CM and ATS-34). Sadly, It was only "in style" for a very short time, and since it was in high demand in the aerospace industry, availability was never going to keep up with demand. Shortly after it became popular, the era of powder metallurgy steels started, with CPM S30V and CPM154 essentially taking it's place (again, mostly due to availability)

kootenay joe
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 8228
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby kootenay joe » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:08 pm

o.k., here is my confusion:
"Those L&W folders are something special. Especially the limited run"
I assume by "Limited Run" you are referring to the first 500 (in a set) or first 1,000 (with BG42) ?
But, the knife i show in o.p. says "Limited Edition" on a shield, but otherwise it is identical to the other L&W i show without the Limited Edition shield.
Also it has been posted that the BG42 blades only came as a plain edge. My "Limited Edition" has a part serrated blade which further confirms it is not a BG42 blade.
Adam do you know if there is anything 'special' about this "Limited Edition" L&W ?
kj

koldgold
Bronze Tier
Bronze Tier
Posts: 939
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:43 am
Location: Just North of Sydney,Australia.

Re: Lake & Walker/ 641 Questions

Postby koldgold » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:58 am

The Schrade Lake & Walker SLW1 knives with BG42 blades do not have a "U.S.A." stamped tang.
The BG42 is too hard to stamp - The spline has a number [very faint stamping]
The late Schrade SLW II [2002-03] had a non-serrated blade and look like the SLW1, it does not have a BG42 blade.
The "Special Limited" SLW II, has a Special shield and comes in a "Special Tin" The tin was made in China... Ken
Attachments
SLW II Blade.jpg
SLW II un-suraded Blade..jpg
HI FROM AUSTRALIA
A.A.P.N. # 5197: Member of Australian & U.S Blade Forums...KEN -
I collect Schrade knives - made in the U.S.A.- I like the 8OT


Return to “Schrade Legacy Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest