Irv Trachtenberg Prototype 7OT

[jxr1197]

I just wanted to share this interesting knife that came from Irv Trachtenberg’s private collection - he worked for Schrade until 1984. The rest of the story is mostly guesswork. The knife is from the early eighties and is essentially a one-off 7OT, although I’ve never seen a nickel silver 7OT so maybe those bits came from one of the scrimshaw knives. The Morningstar LB7 was from 1982 so that would support that line of reasoning and Mr. Trachtenberg oversaw the scrimshaw knives and other collectors sets. I’m a lousy photographer but up close those scales are saw cut black Delrin just like a Copenhagen knife but the Copes were always built with brass bolsters and liners and I think the black and NS combo looks much better. The partially serrated blade must have seemed pretty radical at the time and I’m curious why he chose the end of the blade for that. It’s too bad this one never made it to the production line because if it wasn’t the only one out there I’d definitely be toting this with me as my EDC. Check it out:

[edge213]

Interesting.

[kootenay joe]

This knife appears to be unmarked. "Prototype" is a can of worms. I have not seen this knife with serrated tip before so i doubt there was ever a run of these.
I think this knife could be grouped with either the 7OT or LB7.
I have a similar knife marked "Schrade+/U.S.A. LTD", N/S bolsters, caps & liners, smooth black handles, Delrin ? or Micarta ?, 4 pin, no serrations on blade edge.
kj

[FatCity67]

Seen one about 10 years ago on the other Schrade forum. Don’t know if the pics are still up. Don’t recall it being identified as a Trachtenberg prototype though. Looks like someone got creative on their lunch time. I would have suspected if it was Irv’s knife it would have his salesman’s number on it.

Anyway it’s a nice variation. Reminds me of the Western patterns of the late 70’s and early 80’s.

[jxr1197]

Seen one about 10 years ago on the other Schrade forum. Don’t know if the pics are still up. Don’t recall it being identified as a Trachtenberg prototype though. Looks like someone got creative on their lunch time. I would have suspected if it was Irv’s knife it would have his salesman’s number on it.

Anyway it’s a nice variation. Reminds me of the Western patterns of the late 70’s and early 80’s.

I've heard about salesmen's numbers on knives before but I've never seen one. If this knife was a sample there'd be a number on the blade - but I'm curious about those salesman numbers now. I have a sample knife - where are they marked?

As far as this knife goes - the purpose of the knife and whether it's a prototype are up for interpretation. It seems like a lot of work went into it for a knife made just to take home, but what do I know? I'm confident in the knife's provenance. Jim Parker's company bought the entire Trachtenberg collection and sold it off and I was able to confirm the knife and its paperwork with Jim Parker's son.

[Shearer]

jxr1197
Here is a post you mite like to read.Been down this road before.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=44131

Grant

[jxr1197]

jxr1197
Here is a post you mite like to read.Been down this road before.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=44131

Grant

Now that's just funny that the seller thought that Buck was a Schrade! I read that thread a couple of times and I'm not sure how to interpret it. Was the point of it that there are fraudulent Parker COAs out there created by private sellers trying to add value to a piece or was the point of it that the fraudulent COAs are being generated by the Parkers themselves?

[Shearer]

jxr1197
Here is a post you mite like to read.Been down this road before.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=44131

Grant

Now that's just funny that the seller thought that Buck was a Schrade! I read that thread a couple of times and I'm not sure how to interpret it. Was the point of it that there are fraudulent Parker COAs out there created by private sellers trying to add value to a piece or was the point of it that the fraudulent COAs are being generated by the Parkers themselves?

Here another post from a different forum.
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/who- ... er.373585/
Grant

[tongueriver]

It hasn't been too many years since I saw Buzz Parker's listings on ebay for the Trachtenburg 'knife roll.' These rolls generally hold maybe 40 knives or so, But Irv's roll seemed to contain some 3000 or so knives. Magic. Meanwhile, I think we have an annual P.O.S. trade thingie going, don't we?

[jxr1197]

Hmmm...skeptics, huh?

It’s fascinating how thick the distrust got as soon as the Parker name got connected to this knife. These guys have had a hand in practically every corner of the knife game - the various Parker partnerships, Bulldog, Case, SMKW, etc. They must be connected to millions, maybe even tens of millions of transactions. You could almost say these Parker brothers built a monopoly in the industry. At SMKW I guess John Parker would have even had a role in buying out the Schrade factory collection. I own a couple of those too, but I’ll hold back on posting them for the moment – already plenty of grist on the mill.

Earlier in the thread I said I had spoken to Jim Parker’s son which was an error. I spoke to John but at the time I thought he was Jim’s son. I have since read that he’s the brother. Ok – my bad.

I have a hard time believing that this particular knife is part of some fraud for a few reasons. First and foremost I haven’t actually seen any fraud connected to John Parker. The links above only show other people echoing the same sentiment - that the Parker and SMKW COAs are not trustworthy (FWIW the knife I have has neither of those, just the Trachtenberg Collection certificate.) I’m sure there could be plenty of evidence of misdeads out there – again they have dealt with millions of knives, but I’m just focusing on this one at the moment. In order for me to write this knife off as a ‘fake’ I have to believe a few things. First is the premise that John Parker lied about the Trachtenberg collection one way or another. You guys don’t think he made the whole story up about buying the collection do you? That wouldn’t make any sense. Why attach a bunch of knives to a name that nobody knows? Perhaps the feeling here is that after John sold all the Trachtenberg knives he just kept printing COAs and including them with ‘regular’ knives but again I have to ask why? Why attach a name that NOBODY knows? There’s no premium gained.

Let’s move past this and talk about the knife for a second. This is unquestionably a Schrade LB7/7OT that is flawless. Tight as hell and the workmanship is above reproach. If it wasn’t made in the factory then someone remarkably skilled got their hands on a minty clean, unstamped nickel LB7 and created perfectly shaped and fitted saw cut Delrin scales and added that shield as a finishing touch. They also serrated the blade with perfect precision but the funny thing is they didn’t serrate it starting down at the choil like EVERY other modern semi-serrated folder. Instead they serrated the tip of it like a damn steak knife – kind of like what a cutler might do back in the early 80s if he had the notion to do something no one else was doing yet but didn’t think it through all the way. Or who knows, maybe a steak knife was the inspiration. Then after putting this much work into the knife…they left it unmarked!?

Back to the fraud now. At some point John Parker comes across this knife and wrongly thinks he can increase its value by calling it a Trachtenberg – again, a name nobody knows. He lets it out into the wild where it eventually finds its way to me after demanding the remarkably friendly price of $125. A price I’d have gladly paid for this beast without the story attached. The story was interesting to me because I collect Schrades primarily but that knife was sitting on ebay FOREVER because 99.999% or more of the people looking at Schrades have never heard the name Trachtenberg.
If you guys are right and there are a bajillion fake Trachtenbergs out there then this is without a doubt the stupidest fraud imaginable perpetrated by someone, like him or hate him, who managed to climb higher than most of the other people in the industry.

I’m not trying to change minds here. Just thought I’d explain why I’m not agreeing with the popular sentiment on this one. Maybe I’m biased..

Meanwhile, I think we have an annual P.O.S. trade thingie going, don't we?

Now that's just rude Cal - lol

[Shearer]

Hmmm...skeptics, huh?
viewtopic.php?t=50807
https://bladeforums.com/threads/final-p ... t.1334077/
No one said your knife was not made by Schrade when closing.I am glad you are happy with the knife,I would be.
I have a 77OT with one serrated blade purchased from a person who had it from new.I cannot prove it was a factory production.
All we have been trying to tell you is the certificates that came out with the knives was to make sales.
That many were issued one does not know if they are now true or false.

Grant

[kootenay joe]

I have seen other Hunting knives serrated just at the tip that were made that way in the factory. I think one of them is a Camillus that i recently sold, "Fisk" fixed blade with green handles. Maybe someone here bought it on ebay in last few months.
My bet is that this knife is 100% Schrade USA factory made and NOT EOD.
I have seen a few of these black handled silver bolstered LB7's but not with the tip serrations. It is quite plausible that a short run was done with serrated tip blades at the request of someone or to see if interest would be generated.
kj

[Quick Steel]

If memory serves-and sometimes it doesn't-AG Russell brought out a rope knife/sailors knife a few years back with serrations at the tip. Sailing people were saying they found the forward serrations easier to work with.

[ea42]

I think that's a factory knife as well, might have been something they tried out and decided not to pursue, which left a bunch of sample knives lying around the factory waiting for someone to scap them up. I also wouldn't doubt that it was Irv's knife, the Trachtenberg sale wasn't just what he had in his rolls, it was what he accumulated over the years as well, and most of those old salesmen were quite adept at scooping up a knife or two or a THOUSAND over their careers. I'm not even kidding, especially if they were bitten by the knife bug early on. I think this practice was pretty much accepted as a job perk unless it was done with the intent to resell and profit, which if discovered would immediately get you fired. For example Nilo Miori's collection totaled some 2700 beautiful knives, he was a former President of Camillus who started from the bottom up. He was a knife nut from an early age, and once told Dave Swinden that the only reason he initially got a job there was because he figured it would be easier to "aquire" knives if he worked there hehe. It's folks like him and Irv and all those other old salesmen and employees who squirreled away those old minty knives who we have to thank for many of the old untouched vintage knives that are out there today.

That looks like a Wonda Edge serration, likely done by machine and not by hand, beautiful knife!

Eric

[kootenay joe]

jxr as you are new to AAPK you might not know the author of the above post. "ea42" is a professional cutler who worked for many years at Schrade and after that worked at Canal Street Cutlery until it closed about a year ago.
When i or other Schrade collectors post, we are repeating what we have learned by years of reading in knife forums, augmented by what we have learned from knives we have owned. In other words it is second hand or even third hand 'knowledge' that has been passed on from one collector to another. What might have initially been a guess or assumption, soon becomes 'fact'. Hence much of what we believe to be true is actually not correct.
Posts by ea42 are based on his many years working at Schrade in Ellenville N.Y., i.e. it is what actually happened, not what he might have read online. Eric gives us the most accurate information possible on Schrade USA knives.
I am posting this to ensure that you know the info on your knife as posted by ea42 is 'as good as it gets'.
kj

[jxr1197]

Thank you all for sharing some insight and adding your perspectives to the knife. Funny how so often learning one thing just creates another question. Eric referred to Irv Trachtenberg as one of the old salesmen. The certificate with the knife refers to him as the Product Development Manager. Oh well. It's a pretty knife - I'll leave it at that.

- Thanks again guys

[ea42]

JXR I believe he started out as a salesman, I know his salesman number was somewhere in the twenties but I don't recall exactly what it was. Wound up as assistant product development manager and then became head of the department. I think he kept one of just about everything that was developed, as did many of the sample makers. Lots of these knives were serialized with 000 to differentiate them from the actual retail products.

Eric

[jxr1197]

I think he kept one of just about everything that was developed, as did many of the sample makers.

Like a kid in a candy shop, I totally get it.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

I wish I could get a salesman gig like that