SCHRADES MY TRUE LOVE

[tongueriver]

Hey Everybody, thus the reason for posting this knife right here on aapk for everyone to enjoy. I personally dont believe this knife was made in the 2000's, because there is a heck of a lot of differences just in the type of steel used. You can obviously see the steel in this knife vs the Yellow knife is a lot different not too mention its factory finish is much different. I honestly didnt think much about the rarity of Schrade stags but I have seen several posted that are in Mr. Upnorths collection,,,The Genuine stag handles ALL look identical to mine. I will get some pics of his Stag knives to compare against mine in a short while. I will also take more pics of my knife to add since there is interest in the details and its all a Nice learning experience even for educated knife guys.
Kind Regards,
Mark

Looking forward to the additional information!

[ratlesnake75]

Hey guys, Here are a few extra Pics of my knife. Stampings(original glazed finish over the pattern# as it should be as a factory production knife), The hafting process(shows the lines from the liners to the handles are matching). All the liners are Identical with no extra or Wobble out holes from Re-handling,,,All the liners have the Exact same holes in the exact same spots, This way they can be fitted on either side of knife or used as a center liner,,No need to make different liners when 1 is all they had to make for the entire knife.

Also noticed under a loop the remnants of Milled liners(done very very lightly as you can see)
I found a 1964 catalog online at(( http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/Catalogs/)) where it shows 1 customer order a #291 Schrade, Cannot find a reference or Picture of it anywhere either. This is just 1 customer, Can you imagine how many customers Schrade had over the years PLUS all the salesman knives. I thought it was Neat that this customer also order dozens of the Maher & Grosh etched examples.

I see that most Genuine Stag Schrade knives had "Ink on" pattern & GS on back of their blades,,This ink wears off unfortunately and I am sure mine had it too at one point in time.
Kind Regards,
mark

Stampings

No extra liner holes or wobble out holes

Very light milled liners

Hafting Process

Extra Pics of my Schrade Stag

1964 Catalog

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, A few more pics of more Schrade Stags found on the Net.
Kind Regards,
Mark

Other Schrade Genuine Stag knives(I hope Mr. Upnorth doesnt mine if I use his Stag knives for comparison),,All the stag looks very similar to me.

This Genuine Stag I found in the Completed on Ebay

My knife

[Just Plain Dave]

I say it would be nice to know for sure. But it's a heck of a knife and I reckon I'd tote it and use it!

[lt632ret]

Im sorry but just a couple of points you might explain. The knives you posted of stag are I believe Schrade cut Co pre 46 . You are camparing apples to oranges Schrade did do stag then and those knives from what I can see are correct and quite nice. However as mentioned, Under schrade walden (around approx 1946) they phased out natural materials in favor of delrin. which was substituted for there line butter and molasses cell became K horn ( delrin) stag became staglon ( UH delrin), wood became wonda wood (delrin) ect . Stag was reintroduced in 1976 . If it is an original Schrade Walden then it was not originally made in stag unless it is a later remake Schrade Walden. The fact that there is no reference to an original 298 pattern that can presently be found listed in any material during that period further lends to the belief that it is a later release. A simple listing showing that a model #298 was sold ( in any material ) during this period would certainly help in validating its possible age. When I mentioned the swa787y. ( that I posted pics of ) I was not saying that your knife was of necessity one of those made just before closing and after ( by camillus after Stuart Taylor bought Schrade ) the only point I was making is that over the years Schrade used the Schrade Walden stamp on re releases and I was simply using it as an example of that fact. So my questions are 1, So far no listing found for a 298 during the original period of Schrade Walden, 46 approx to 72 approx. 2, Schrade did not reintroduce stag until 76. 3. The tang stamp is the same as used in other re releases. Just one more point looking further at your stag, it seems to be correct for schrade but it is typical of what was done for special editions and releases after it was reintroduced after 1976.
I am not trying to be a hardon and frankly am open to changing my opinion if you can just clarify one or more of those questions that I have. As you pointed out we can all learn. Highest regards LT

[tongueriver]

Under schrade walden (around approx 1946) they phased out natural materials in favor of delrin. which was substituted for there line butter and molasses cell became K horn ( delrin) stag became staglon ( UH delrin), wood became wonda wood (delrin) ect . Highest regards LT

LT is correct in that the other knives shown by Ratlesnake are Schrade CutCo knives and therefore their manufacture was performed under very different business models. In fact, not only are they pre-1947 knives, but they are almost certainly pre-WWII knives. Once the war started, Schrade CutCo's output shrank to almost nothing and none of the consumer knives at all, by Federal law. When the war was over they had two years (more or less) to recoup the market and the line-up must have been very basic and minimal. I suspect they were just about through when Baer bought them out. Nearly all of these Schrade CutCo knives I see advertised for sale as "1940s" knives were only 1940s knives in the sense that 1940 and 1941 are 1940s. Little or nothing after that.
However, Lt's quote above is sort of correct, with a little additional clarification. They used a lot of celluloid in the 1950s, along with bone and the stabilized product called propwood and wondawood. The first Delrin factory in the world was built in 1960. The 898K knives were released in K horn celluloid first, and then, after Delrin came into use, a similar color in Delrin. One can see the difference, as the Delrin is much more opaque to the eye. My ramble.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Cal are you saying that schrade cut produced almost exclusively for the military during ww2 and very few knives for the civilian market?

[tongueriver]

Cal are you saying that schrade cut produced almost exclusively for the military during ww2 and very few knives for the civilian market?

No. They produced what the government let them produce, which was for the trades- agriculture, industrial, etc. Think TL-29s, rope knives, bare-bone stockman or cattle knives, maybe barlows. I am quite unclear about the exact production. The regulations were not only rather complex, but they made additional changes as the war wore on. The output probably went from dozens of patterns to just a few. No brass, and possibly no nickel silver. No gents' or ladies' knives. Additionally, although Schrade CutCo stamped a tiny few fixed blades with their own name, they were all (to the best of my knowledge) extreme low price-point knives made for them by Kinfolks. Schrade CutCo is not known to ever have made a fixed blade. Not even for the military in WWII.

[lt632ret]

Ah Schrade never say never. LT

[lt632ret]

By the way since I had to go outside (to a museum building I had built here at my home) to snap the sheath knife pic I took a few ( some terrible pics ) of full correct period antique display cases filled. This is stuff I cannot fit in the museum. I only took some pics of just a few. Doing them individually would be a years work. So sorry for the pics but it will give you an idea . I could probably fill the museum ( which is pretty big ) twice more with this leftover stuff. I had so many Napanochs I had to take 100 out to make room for some thing else. You are welcome to stop over guys. I left some bad pics but if you look at them all it will give you an idea. The little 10 knife 2 tier display is from 1958 the first year after the Walden move to Ellenville and the knives are correct ( same as original numbers )However forthe purist the backround in the display is not original. this display cae is really tough to find because the front is not glass or plexiglass but rather just a thin clear flexible like thick saran wrap finding one intact was a rarity. The big glass ones are tough to photo due to light and the shiny displays they are 100 years old. Anyway it will give you an idea. Even if not real great pics one thing I believe we will agree on is that old knives are fun to look at and a bad pic is better than no pic. I hope you concur. LT

[treefarmer]

Wow! What a great group of displays! In the 2nd and 3rd pictures, the 2nd knife from the left on the bottom row, looks just like one of my Dad's old knives that I cherish. Mother gave it to me when he passed away in 1979, Butter and molasses, Schrade Walden 896K.
Treefarmer

[lt632ret]

I am glad the pics gave you a good memory at 70 years old one of the few pleasures left to me is seeing someone get some enjoyment from these artifacts and this history. There is just to much for me to present it truly correctly especially with the museum taking up time. We could sure use some younger devotees to carry the ball especially as time goes on. again that is only a fraction of just what is in that building. A shame but I have spent many decades trying to save this history what will happen to it is anyones guess. LT

[tongueriver]

Ah Schrade never say never. LT

I believe that to be a Kinfolks. I have seen a few. I do not know this to be fact, but another researcher well-thought of once stated it as fact.

[tongueriver]

LT, to see your collection would be a pilgrimage, for sure. Captivating. I am only a coupla thousand miles out (or so) so I guess it would be do-able.

[lt632ret]

a mere stretch of the legs. Perhapes someday I hope so it would be a pleasure. It used to be that whenever someone came over here it was venison steaks and crown royal. Now some times it is fillet mignon and crown. Ive gotten soft I enjoy watching the deer the other day I stood watching for 10 minutes while mom and baby ate the green leaves off my tulips. They never touched a flower. Man I am getting old. LT

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Cal are you saying that schrade cut produced almost exclusively for the military during ww2 and very few knives for the civilian market?

No. They produced what the government let them produce, which was for the trades- agriculture, industrial, etc. Think TL-29s, rope knives, bare-bone stockman or cattle knives, maybe barlows. I am quite unclear about the exact production. The regulations were not only rather complex, but they made additional changes as the war wore on. The output probably went from dozens of patterns to just a few. No brass, and possibly no nickel silver. No gents' or ladies' knives. Additionally, although Schrade CutCo stamped a tiny few fixed blades with their own name, they were all (to the best of my knowledge) extreme low price-point knives made for them by Kinfolks. Schrade CutCo is not known to ever have made a fixed blade. Not even for the military in WWII.

That is very interesting, thank you. I suppose the government limited their production due to rationing valuable war materials?


LT, your schrade museum is absolutely stellar. I would love to see it, hopefully someday. What state are you in?

[tongueriver]

a mere stretch of the legs. Perhapes someday I hope so it would be a pleasure. It used to be that whenever someone came over here it was venison steaks and crown royal. Now some times it is fillet mignon and crown. Ive gotten soft I enjoy watching the deer the other day I stood watching for 10 minutes while mom and baby ate the green leaves off my tulips. They never touched a flower. Man I am getting old. LT

Taken out my living room window without a zoom lens, February 8, 2013.

[lt632ret]

The Wawarsing historical and knife museum is located in Napanoch NY. It is about 2 miles down the road from where the second Ellenville Schrade factory was located. The original Schrade factory was in Walden NY about 3 miles away from where I actually live. In 1958 approx it was moved to Ellenville NY at the Canal street location which was also the factory for the Ulster knife company. ( Also later until they closed Canal Street Cutlery.) We have a web site just put in The Knife Museum. or http://theknifemuseum.com/ we owe the website to Stuart taylor and his sons who at there expense sent there video crew to film it and set up the site. He really is the only manufacturer who has shown any interest in helping us preserve this history. The taylors have helped us in other ways as well. When the NKCA museum closed in Tenn after Kevin Pipes kicked them out of Smokey Mountain Knife Works we did receive some artifacts thanks to Bruce Voyles. We will be opening 10 to 4 on weekends from Memorial day until labor day for our third season. Do not let that decieve you this project has taken 20 years to get going. 8 of those were just for me to write a bill and get it passed into law to establish and allow a legal procedure for the display and storage of switchblade knives.( this had to be done before we even could even concieve of the project ) Actually when dealing with the genius lawmakers in Albany it is amazing that it was done in only 8 years. Frankly that we have come this far and lasted this long with only a handful of geriatric geezers of which Iam among the youngest is amazing. If you check the speciality forums here on AAPK you will find in Knife Lore some of our history in the thread The Wawarsing historical and knife museum. Should any of you ever decide that you wish to dedicate you time, life and money to a cause like preserving a bit of American artifacts and history. I would suggest that you consider consulting your nearest mental health facility. or consider shoveling feces against the incoming tide of the Atlantic ocean as an easier cause to dedicate yourself to. None the less just like the old Bobby Bare song ( which hopefully someone will remember besides me ) " ( But we done er boys and that what makes us THE WINNER?????). See ya at the museum I will be the young feller doing the tours. Come see 164 years of American Cutlery History in the NY Hudson Valley.

[treefarmer]

I'll admit I haven't "really" paid close attention to this thread, SHARADES MY TRUE LOVE, but I just realized it has been idle for over 4 years till last week. The information and opinions being offered are way over my head but they are very interesting. Being a user and accumulator is apparently different than being a collector or curator.
I first became aware of Schrade Walden in the early '70s, up until then it had mostly been Case for me. Where we bought feed and farm supplies, Wells' FRM Store (Flint River Mills),had a Schrade display on the counter and I liked the prices.
Readin' this thread, I got to thinking about how many Schrades I had bought to actually use. The 896K, I bought for my Dad. There were two 881s. One escapes me right now but the one with the bleached out handle is well used and it spent one whole year layin' in the woods. I had shot a deer late one afternoon and he jumped a fence and I had to come back the next morning to recover him. In the process of gutting the deer, I some how lost the knife. I promptly replace it with an identical one from the feed store. A year later I was walking along a skidder trail and there lay my knife, bleached and somewhat rusty.
I carried the trapper, 94OT for years as a maintenance foreman and the others didn't get a lot of pocket time.
LT mentioned the 70 year mark which I also have been blessed to achieve. I completely understand having to substitute beef for venison. Up until 3 years ago, I always was able to put several deer in the freezer each year but the last two seasons we're down to one per season. That reminds me that one of my favorite deer processing knives is an Old Timer 77OT, just right for removing tiny bits of silver skin, etc.. from those delicious boneless chops.
Y'all keep discussing these finer points of collecting and I'll keep reading about some might fine knives!
If I ever find myself in New York, I would love to see The Knife Museum. That's a long way from the Florida Panhandle.
Treefarmer

top to bottom: Dad's 896K, 197UH, 194OT, 94OT and the lost and found 881

[lt632ret]

Fate is strange remember the SWA787Y yellow Schrade Walden which I posted pics of to use an example of a Schrade Walden that was a remake and was not a true Schrade Walden made between the mid fortys and 72 approx. Remember how I used it as an example to show how these knives would confuse the average buyer. Remember my suggestion that this was not unusual and as time went on these were being sold and accepted as the real thing. I just went into ebay and went to Walden knife. Low and behold guess what 322493535957 (Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.) As you read this ad please check date of manufacture 46-73. This is a classic example of the point I was making and shows how these pieces are being sold and accepted. I doubt the seller is even aware. And it gets better 292098698314 here is another 298 pristene Schrade Walden in STAG which has suddenly appeared identical to the one presented here both. Pristene and suddenly found from the 50tys Even the seller says that it is extremely rare yes it would be. Two appear and both stag when they did not use stag and a model not found for sale during that period, must be a coincidence Rereleases sold as original and people argue when you try to explain it to them. Simply amazing. LT PS the guy is asking like 500 bucks for the 298 due to rarity. I get people who come into the museum with this stuff and get mad when you try to tell them what they have. These were made to confuse and they knew that down the road a few years this would happen but no one cared because it was a fast buck.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey LT, I have the Highest Regards for you Sir and WANT dearly to learn from YOU, But perhaps maybe you could see my point of view with an open mind. I know that I am not a well known knife guy but I have studied knives Immensely for 35yrs and feel that my experience should not go invalid and I will also have some great information to share with other knife lovers. I am not able financially to preserve knives like you Sir and I believe your cause is Just as Wonderful as building a New Free Hospital for everyone to receive healthcare. With that said, I am a very poor guy who struggles for ends meat. I was Blessed with a Grandfather & father who LOVED Knives and taught me as much as they could and then I was self taught after that. The only thing I have to Lose in Life is my Pride, Honor and Integrity and SIR that is whats most important too me. My mine goal and Thrill is the Hunt for the Rare, Unusual and Odd knives and then Sell them to folks like you who can afford to preserve them for our future Generations to enjoy. You Sir are the MAN,,in ALL our eyes truthfully and Respectfully.

When I am able to travel, I attend knife shows all across the USA in search of Rare pieces and have been doing so for a LONG Time(over 20yrs). I was sitting on my fathers lap at age 7 and him teaching me case pattern#'s.
I would NEVER knowingly present a $35 re-issue knife off as an Original especially when there are so many differences in the Re-issue Schrades vs the Originals.

May I explain WHY my knife is so different than the Re-issue without upsetting you Sir??
The Yellow Re-issue knife on Ebay,,The Muskrat Sir. If you notice, The back of blades are NOT or do NOT have a Glazed/satin Finish as is customary/normal for originals. Also notice the shield is GLUED on and Not Pinned. This would make sense to me Also because In the 70's is when this occurred((((Factories using Glue instead of Rivots to hold the shields in place)))).

I can tell you are a SCHRADE lover and you are Costumed to only seeing knives that are available in CATALOGS. I can assure you Sir that MANY knives are available that ARE NOT in the catalogs BUT they were made,,,For example,,,The salesman's knives or Factory Mistake knives or Special order knives.
I appreciate aapk for the opportunity to expose all the great information we are sharing.
Kind Regards,
mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey LT, That 298 Stag Schrade knife on ebay is My knife Sir. Just wanted to let you know(((Thats my ebay name Mark-Shana)))
Kind Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, I posted pictures of what I could find on net when it comes to Schrade Stag knives, Not trying to compare apples/oranges,,,Schrade Walden vs Schrade Cut. But If you seen as many knives as I have made during transitional periods where the company's used leftover parts instead of throwing them away,,,Then its Highly likely My knife was made in c1946 as a special order or Salesman knife and not in the 50's. I was just trying to generalize on my listing as Not to be Exact but will change my description to 40's era instead of 50's for the confusion, sorry
Kind Regards,
Mark

[tongueriver]

I have not studied Schrade knives as long as Mark Shana, probably, and certainly not as long as LT, but I have studied them intensively for ten years and own a great many of them from all periods. If I had any money left over from knife buying (and I don't), I would lay an almost unlimited amount on the table and say that I firmly believe that the master blade on the OP knife is 100% authentic through and through as a pre-1973 Schrade factory item. I could not bring myself to bet on any other part of the knife; I just can't bring enough knowledge to the table to bet on any other part of the knife, although I am fairly certain that the rest of the metal parts of the knife are also authentic. The handles? I could go either way on that.

[tongueriver]

Hey Guys, I posted pictures of what I could find on net when it comes to Schrade Stag knives, Not trying to compare apples/oranges,,,Schrade Walden vs Schrade Cut. But If you seen as many knives as I have made during transitional periods where the company's used leftover parts instead of throwing them away,,,Then its Highly likely My knife was made in c1946 as a special order or Salesman knife and not in the 50's. I was just trying to generalize on my listing as Not to be Exact but will change my description to 40's era instead of 50's for the confusion, sorry
Kind Regards,
Mark

Mark, your knife has mid to late 1950s tang stamp. The early Schrade Walden stamps did not have "U.S.A." in them. Just "N.Y."