Sword Brand Tang Stamps and the Corresponding Camillus Tang Stamps... What will it tell us?

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, Go out on a "Limb" with me on this OK. I have got a good hunch about WHY the Camillus dating chart may be OFF & Confusing when it comes Specifically to the Sword Brand Stamped knives.
Here is my feeling thus far & my Hunch that I am having.

I believe we may have some different "Styles" of "Sword Brand" Stampings, Not just one or two of them but Many of them. Depending upon of the Sword Brand pictorial variations, will no doubt have an effect on its coinciding YEARS of production!!! The picture of the Sword Brand itself is what I am referring too. We need many examples of the Sword Brand stamp itself so we can all compare
I have this one to start with. What you guys think? I think it will be fun & educational over time.
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[orvet]

Here is a Sword Brand tang stamp I copied from eBay.
I don't know that I have one like this but someone may be able to date the stamp from the knife.

Perhaps we should look at the tang stamp on the reverse side of the Sword Brand logo also. The Camillus tang stamp may be easier to date than the Sword Brand stamp, so if we post both tang stamps and perhaps even a picture of the knife, that might make it easier to date everything together. Tom Williams maintained that you can't date a Camillus strictly by the tang stamp, you have to look at the type of construction, the materials and methods used in making the knife as well as the tang stamp in order to more accurately determine when a Camillus knife was manufactured.

These two knives have the Camillus Cut Co. tang stamp. I have yet to see anyone date this stamp, any guesses?

These two seem to have the same markings, both the Sword Brand logo and the tang stamp on the reverse tang.
Both of these are model #1001 which predate the new numbering system that was introduced, shortly after World War II, IIRC.
The new model number for this pattern is #1, the Hawkbill pruner.

Does is that to get you started?
I believe there are at least two different Sword Brand logos in these examples.

[ratlesnake75]

Totally Awesome!!! I also concur with everything you said about HELPFUL dating by reading the knife too
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Dale, This is EXACTLY what I am saying brother. Look at your Sword Brand stamp on the top celluloid knife. I want you to focus in on the "R" in "swoRd". Totally different than mine.
Check it out with my blown up picture
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[orvet]

Okay Mark, I think I have successfully split this topic off of the other one, without crashing AAPK.

Okay, all you Camillus collectors, let's see your Sword Brand tang stamps and the corresponding Camillus tang stamps on the same knife. Let's see if we can figure a pattern that may help us not only with dating the Sword Brand stamps but will hopefully show us a more clear time for the Camillus tang stamps also.

Post them if you got them!

[orvet]

Hey Dale, Here is EXACTLY what I am saying brother. Look at your Sword Brand stamp on the top celluloid knife. I want you to focus in on the "R" in "SwoRD". Totally different than mine.
Check it out with my blown up picture
Kindest Regards,
Mark

Not only are the letters "R" different, but it appears the handle on the sword is different also.
It appears that the handle may have finger grooves that were poorly represented in the small stamped image.

These pictures are from Travman, he shared them with me a few years ago. This is a small Camillus rope knife. I believe these were seen in fair numbers during World War I. You see the handles in the sword image, it appears as if they are trying to represent finger grooves or perhaps tassels?
What do you think?

[New_Windsor_NY]

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[ratlesnake75]

Dale Sir. This is EXACTLY what I was looking for & I appreciate you working/helping me. I apologize for starting that other thread today & hopefully you will just delete it. I am re-posting everything that was in that other thread I made. As you guys know, I am NOT the smartest cookie around & I make stupid mistakes.
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Here I go AGAIN!!! Love that song by Whitesnake, lol... Rattlesnake... stupid humor huh

Alright'y Gentleman, Are we set to go? I think so...lmao

You guys help me keep up with the different stampings as we come across them. Once we get a bunch of similar stampings on similar knives,,,We will then be able to combine the pictures for an easier read of the knives. Is this FUN or what!!!
Kindest Regards,
Mark

My Scout Knife & Mr. Dale found this "Camp" knife today((On the left is the Camp Knife)))

Here is one I found online -- A Sweet & Rare Sword Brand Stamp on a TIMBER Scribe pattern

[ratlesnake75]

Dale You are ABSOLUTELY Correct about the finger grooves in the (sword handle).
We will also find that the "Font" is going to vary a LOT!!! We will need to pay attention to the FONT Style of the letters from Known WW1 Examples and compare them with KNOWN WW2 Examples. I think this will HELP tremendously narrow down very quickly the OLD OLD Stuff to the WW2 and later production
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Here is another Scout similar to mine
Thx Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, I found a few more pics online that have some good dating info
A 75th Anniversary Socony-Vacuum, I showed a picture of the 1941 print add with the knife.
The other is a Pinehurst 1927 knife w/ Sword Brand
Kind Regards,
Mark

[carrmillus]

....this is interesting!!....when I get time I am going to go thru mine and see if the marks are different!!!....... ...................

[orvet]

Nice examples Mark. I have been really busy the last couple weeks and haven't had time to search much. Keep up the good work!

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

I don't have any cool pics to add to this already very cool thread, but I did have a thought... The tang stamps were created by a die, correct? On older knives, I would expect that the dies were created by hand. I suspect this means that there could be slight differences in fonts, details, etc from die to die. So, doesn't that mean that two dies from the same period might be *slightly* different? I'm only pointing this out because as you begin to scrutinize the tang stamps for very slight differences, you might need to take this into consideration. It might not be possible to really know what differences were actually intended to represent a difference in the branding over the years, versus what might just be "artistic variance" from die to die.

[orvet]

I believe this is a valid point and should be taken into consideration.

[orvet]

There is a unique Sword Brand currently for sale on eBay that fits right into this topic. I have not seen any Sword Brand with swords on the bolster. I am not sure of the actual definition of Washington bolsters, but these look to me like bolsters on a Schrade 2OT, which I know are Washington bolsters. I guess I will go out on a limb here and say this is the only Camillus Sword Brand I have seen with Washington bolsters, especially with engraved Washington bolsters. I think it is delightful!
Here are a of the sellers pics.

This is a live auction on eBay with 6 days remaining.
I suspect it's going to go for more than I want to pay for it.
If someone from AAPK gets it; please show us some really good pictures.
(This is not my auction, not my knife, and I'm not bidding on this item).
Auction # 133196022990
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133196022990?_ ... 1758.m4704

[orvet]

I don't think we have this one yet.

[ratlesnake75]

I don't have any cool pics to add to this already very cool thread, but I did have a thought... The tang stamps were created by a die, correct? On older knives, I would expect that the dies were created by hand. I suspect this means that there could be slight differences in fonts, details, etc from die to die. So, doesn't that mean that two dies from the same period might be *slightly* different? I'm only pointing this out because as you begin to scrutinize the tang stamps for very slight differences, you might need to take this into consideration. It might not be possible to really know what differences were actually intended to represent a difference in the branding over the years, versus what might just be "artistic variance" from die to die.

Completely & Totally agree!! This is why we need many knives to study from & hopefully a PATTERN will emerge
Thank you very much for a well said comment
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[New_Windsor_NY]

A few days ago, this CAMILLUS 72 variation got added to my collection. It is a CAMILLUS "SWORD BRAND", 3 blade, swelled center, milled liners, 3 5/8" closed, "whittler" pocket knife. I gave it a cleaning, took some pictures and here it is.
Click on a picture to ENLARGE.

[phil0175]

A few days ago, this CAMILLUS 72 variation got added to my collection. It is a CAMILLUS "SWORD BRAND", 3 blade, swelled center, milled liners, 3 5/8" closed, "whittler" pocket knife. I gave it a cleaning, took some pictures and here it is.
Click on a picture to ENLARGE.

That’s what makes collecting knives so rewarding!!! Outstanding!!!!!!
Phil

[Vit_213]

A few days ago, this CAMILLUS 72 variation got added to my collection. It is a CAMILLUS "SWORD BRAND", 3 blade, swelled center, milled liners, 3 5/8" closed, "whittler" pocket knife.

A very unusual combination of tang stamps. I'm puzzled ...

[New_Windsor_NY]

That’s.....

Thank you Phil.

A very unusual.....

[doglegg]

I thought the Sword Brand model was a 70. But we are talking about Camillus. In great shape as well.

[New_Windsor_NY]

I.....

Thank you Floyd.