Any ideas on identifying this one? 4 Line

[CheckSix]

I've looked at the available online old catalogs back to 1946 and can't find this exact knife. It's a 4 line, 3-1/2" closed, spear and pen blades and other than the handles, appears to be similar to a #13, medium jack.... but it has a different shield and black handles/covers/scales, likely pyroxylin or celluloid and only one pin, versus 3 pins in the handles on a #13. I have a feeling it's pre-WWII.

Thoughts?

[carrmillus]

......c6, are both blades 4 line stamped??......... .........................

[tjmurphy]

That's my question too, Tommy. Sure is a K-nice K-nife though.

[CheckSix]

......c6, are both blades 4 line stamped??......... .........................

No sir, Tommy! I'm assuming that changes the time frame. Post WWII now? The master spear has the 4 line stamp, no pattern # on the back side and nothing stamped on the secondary pen.

[carrmillus]

....don't have my goin's in front of me, but if all blades are 4 line stamped, I think it is 1914-1919. if only the master is 4 line stamped, it is 1919-1941. i'll find my book later and see how good my memory is!!!..... ..................

[carrmillus]

.........c6, just dug mine out and looked at it-shows how good my memory is!!- it's 3 1/2" closed, no tip bolster, 5 pins counting the pivot pin, main is 3 line(straight) marked, secondary is curved 3line, which dates it 1915, no shield, ebony wood handles.my memory is not to good, but I think this one was a gift from T.J. Murphy several years ago!!.......one of my treasures!!!.......... .......................

[tjmurphy]

Goins says the four line stamp, one blade only, dates to 1941-1946.

[carrmillus]

......I stand corrected, t. j.!!.......among other things, my memory is going, too!!!!.......... ...................

[CheckSix]

Goins says the four line stamp, one blade only, dates to 1941-1946.

Interesting! So, most likely during WWII... or slightly before, or slightly after. Thanks for the help so far.

Am I right, that it is like a #13, except different shield, fewer pins and different handle material. I can't find any catalogs to look at, prior to 1946. The '46 catalog is the last one to show the #13.... so it must have been prior to this.

[Miller Bro's]

The handles are plastic, camillus had a patent on the way the handles were held on. There are four prongs that when heated are pushed into the plastic handle material. I forget the patent date but it could be 1946 IIRC.

[CheckSix]

The handles are plastic, camillus had a patent on the way the handles were held on. There are four prongs that when heated are pushed into the plastic handle material. I forget the patent date but it could be 1946 IIRC.

I can see the 4 dimples on each cover. I was wondering why they were there! If the patent issue date was in 1946, they were probably using it before then, since they had already filed and were pat pend "protected" on infringement.

Any idea what pattern this is Dimitri?

[orvet]

Sorry I didn't get this up sooner, I've been interrupted several times today trying to get this posted.

Your knife has a composition handle and the handle is attached using the prong method. Four prongs, (two would each end near the bolsters), on each liner are punched out from the liner. Some patterns have more than four prongs per handle. When the prongs are heated they are pushed into the handle material, or the handle material was molded onto the prongs. The shield has a prong folded backwards at either end that is molded into the handle material also.

The shield is attached to the handle material by two prongs and the handle material is attached to the liners by four or more prongs from each liner. Camillus used this method with the Streamline series of Sword Brand knives made in the 1930s. Every example of the Streamline series I have seen had celluloid handles that were attached by the prong method and shields that were also attached with prongs. The lighter colored handles in this series were notorious for offgassing.

Your handles appear to be black celluloid judging from the shrinkage in the cracking at the prongs. I would date your knife most likely to the 1930s. I don't recall seeing the many celluloid knives made during World War II, I suspect the raw materials were used in munitions rather than a knife handles. And your handles do not appear to be FG stag, a type of molded jigged plastic, made by Foster Grant of Leominster Massachusetts which begin to be used in 1942 or 1943. Your knife could possibly have been made in the 1920s but so far I have not been able to find an example of the prong construction used on a knife that can definitely be dated to the 1920s. The Streamline series of Sword Brand have been positively dated to the 1930s by Tom Williams, who was the historian for Camillus.


These two pictures show a Camillus made with prong construction after the deteriorating remnants of the handles have been removed.

I have a picture of the bowtie type shield used by Camillus on the Streamline series of knives. I will add it to this post when I get the picture downloaded off of my camera. The bowtie shield had four prongs that were heated and pushed into the handle material, the federal type shield on your knife only has two prongs, if I recall correctly.

Here is the Streamline shield showing the prongs on the back side that are imbedded into the plastic handle.

[CheckSix]

Thanks Dale for typing all of that out. I know that takes a lot of time and I really appreciate it!

My original guess was pre-WWII but I have precious little resources yet to know this definitively. Yesterday evening when we were dating it to WWII, I was actually trying to reconcile the materials consumption for commercial knife making, versus using the materials for the war effort. I remember my Dad telling me they were ordered to recycle tin cans and so forth, rationing was going on and he had a spun bearing in a flat head Ford V-8 that he could not get new bearings for, so every week he dropping the oil pan and emery clothing the oil journal and bearing, trying to nurse it another week. All of this to say... it made me wonder about the WWII date.

I was not aware of the Streamline series of knives Camillus made. Could this be why my example pictured above has flat, slim bolsters? That would be a breakthrough in understanding what this knife is. I looked up Streamlines online and found this picture, which appears to show the flat bolters and single pin in the handle.

I'm still trying to get to what pattern my knife was known as.

Here's the pictures I pilfered from the internet....

[tjmurphy]

I don't think that I'd be too concerned with the handle material, pin configuration or shield, CAMILLUS shows the #13 and the description fits your knife, calling it a medium jack. CASE called it a regular jack, swell end jack, or tear-drop jack knife.

[CheckSix]

I don't think that I'd be too concerned with the handle material, pin configuration or shield, CAMILLUS shows the #13 and the description fits your knife, calling it a medium jack. CASE called it a regular jack, swell end jack, or tear-drop jack knife.

Thank you TJ!!!

This is what I find so endearing about this hobby, the search and discovery, to try and understand what we have in our collection. On the flip side, it is also somewhat frustrating at times too! But I have to tell you, I think this is what I enjoy most about AAPK, it is the discussion and different points of view. I take it all in. I'm like a barely moist sponge right now.