Chinese Queens a Reality

The Queen Cutlery Company manufactured knives in Titusville Pennsylvania for 96 years. The company opened its only factory there in 1919 and commenced to make some of the best US crafted cutlery you will find. Unfortunately, the Titusville manufacturing plant closed down in 2018.
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TwoFlowersLuggage
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

Both the Queen/Queen City and Rough Ryder trademarks are owned by SMKW. So, if the Queen City knives made in China are made in the same factory as the RR knives (and I think it is pretty obvious they are) there is very little risk involved to SMKW. If you want to see all the trademarks SMKW owns, you can search for that at the USPTO: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe? ... k7en3.10.1
Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Check Status Live/Dead
1 88097778 OLD FORGE TSDR DEAD
2 88097805 6114143 EXPLORER TSDR LIVE
3 88112210 6093498 NOVELTY CUTLERY TSDR LIVE
4 88590768 KOMORAN TSDR LIVE
5 88860759 QUEEN CITY TSDR LIVE
6 88860753 QUEEN TSDR LIVE
7 88590774 CARRY-ALL ANYTIME. ANYWHERE. TSDR LIVE
8 87842117 6108347 TSDR LIVE
9 87847786 6029780 GENUINE EYE BRAND TSDR LIVE
10 87056204 5221308 KNIFENEWSROOM.COM TSDR LIVE
11 86081527 4717360 SIDEWINDER TSDR LIVE
12 86080706 4612549 OLE SMOKY TSDR LIVE
13 85567153 4451935 SHARPKIDZ TSDR DEAD
14 85479995 4146782 KNIFECAVE TSDR DEAD
15 85485017 4240724 KNIFE CAVE TSDR DEAD
16 85486012 4212980 KNIFE CAVE CAN YOU BRAVE THE CAVE? TSDR DEAD
17 85477923 4278240 NOVELTY KNIFE CO. TSDR LIVE
18 85418975 4138673 ROUGH RIDER TSDR LIVE
19 85073546 4008431 AMERICAN HUNTER TSDR LIVE
20 85819809 THUNDER TSDR DEAD
21 79242976 5864749 CARL SCHLIEPER TSDR LIVE
22 78963155 3386965 MAN KNIVES TSDR LIVE
23 78702502 3320392 COLONEL COON KNIVES TSDR LIVE
24 78819601 3224614 SIDEWINDER TSDR DEAD
25 78300497 2981962 WILD BOAR TSDR LIVE
26 78430894 3007477 EKNIFEWORKS.COM TSDR LIVE
27 78115768 2824061 COMBAT READY TSDR LIVE
28 78115767 2754485 FOX & HOUND TSDR LIVE
29 78264534 ECC TSDR DEAD
30 78153370 WILD BOAR TSDR DEAD
31 77834859 BRADFORD CUTLERY TSDR DEAD
32 76441213 2755651 WILD BOAR TSDR LIVE
33 76655655 3214573 BENCHMARK TSDR LIVE
34 74635263 1953113 SMOKY MOUNTAIN KNIFE WORKS THE WORLD'S LARGEST KNIFE SHOWPLACE TSDR LIVE
35 74574004 1921520 ROUGH RYDER TSDR LIVE
36 74032963 1754412 RIDERS OF THE SILVER SCREEN TSDR LIVE
37 74493628 NOVELTY KNIFE CO. TSDR DEAD
38 74442325 ROUGH RIDER TSDR DEAD
39 74342735 NOVELTY CUTLERY TSDR DEAD
40 73763441 1569291 SMOKY MOUNTAIN KNIFE WORKS TSDR LIVE
41 73763440 1578674 SMOKY MOUNTAIN KNIFE WORKS TSDR LIVE
42 72369152 0940457 WESTMARK TSDR LIVE
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by cody6268 »

I knew they owned the Col. Coon name, but I did not know they owned Explorer (which I was a little curious about, given how Gutmann went out of business ages ago), German Eye/Eye Brand/CARL SCHLIEPER, or Westmark (I thought that went alongside Western, which would be Acme-owned since they bought Camillus who bought Western from Coleman).
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by kootenay joe »

AS SMKW owns both the Queen name and Rough Rider, then a buyer could choose either; i.e. one knife gets sold, might be "Queen" or RR, but i do not see it as increasing the total number of knives sold.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by kootenay joe »

RevolverGuy wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:49 pm I have been to the SMKW store in Tennessee. This was my experience with Rough Rider. I found a particular congress I liked in buffalo horn and the employee who was helping me went through 7 boxes before I could find one that didn't have something off. Some had gaps in scales, some had weak springs, some had blade rub/play, some had horrible blade grinds... On appearance they look nice, but when you look closer you start to see why they're sold for a lot less.

I bought that knife for $16. The box it came in was beautiful. Honestly I don't know much about China made knives, but I would assume that Rough Rider would be considered good quality in China made traditional folders. I did handle the other China made Marbles at that store but the quality was even worse. Something I noticed when compared to my Case and Schrade USA's are that the blades are thicker, the springs are thicker, the brass liners are also noticeably thicker, so you end up with a good looking knife that is thicker all around.
All of my RR knives were bought on ebay from a variety of sellers. They were not 'pre-selected' but none of mine have the issues you describe with the RR knives in the SMKW shop. Mine are all traditional style folders. I have bought a few tactical style RR folders and these are not as well made. Likely they come from a different factory.
I have read posts about this a number of times: some people consistently get RR's with everything being 'right on' and other people consistently get RR's with significant 'issues'. Almost seems like there are 2 'lines' of RR knives, one of which are seconds with issues ?
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

kootenay joe wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:06 pm AS SMKW owns both the Queen name and Rough Rider, then a buyer could choose either; i.e. one knife gets sold, might be "Queen" or RR, but i do not see it as increasing the total number of knives sold.
kj
Except that now you have added the obsessive Queen buyer that thinks they need to have EVERY knife with a Queen tang stamp - even if it is really just a RR in Queen clothing. Or, the nostalgic person that is completely unaware of all the recent history and just remembers that Queen was his Dad's favorite pocket knife.

The competition for these knives is not RR. It is the Chinese made Buck line, or the Chinese made Schrade line, or any of the other Chinese made lines of old American brands.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Dinadan »

Thank you for posting that list of trademarks, TFL.

It has been remarked a couple of times that the old American trademark knives made in China do not seem especially popular. I do not see where Queen will be any different, really. Maybe a lot of folks who actually know what those old names stood for dislike seeing them on foreign knives. I like some China knives and I am not too fond of seeing that. And if a person has no clue about Valley Forge or Schrade, then why pick one of those over Rough Rider with its greater market presence?
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Reverand »

I don't get it.
I own a few Chinese-made knives, and I have nothing against them, I just prefer to support American companies when I can.
I agree with many of you that this will not increase the number of knives that SMKW will sell - only the name by which it sells. A few people will be duped, just as those who now buy new Schrade knives sometimes are, but probably not that many.
I suppose that they believe it was worth the investment to buy the rights to the name, anyway.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

I think you guys underestimate how many people go to Walmart or Home Depot, look in the knife case, see the name "Buck" or "Old Timer" and buy because they recognize that brand name. In the consumer goods marketing game, two of the important metrics are "unaided brand awareness" and "aided brand awareness".

Unaided brand awareness is when someone is asked to list their favorite brands of knives, but they are given no other information. This is a very powerful metric. Think about it - if someone simply asked you to list your favorite brands of toilet paper, and you said "Charman, Northern, Angel Soft, Scott" - that means the advertising dollars for those brands is money well spent. Brand names that are at the top of this list in their product category are worth a HUGE amount of money.

Aided brand awareness is when some is provided a list of brand names, and then asked to rank them from most to least favorite. This is an important metric because it speaks directly to brand preference and brand perception. It is the equivalent of going to the store and seeing the products on the shelf, and then selecting one. There are, of course, subtleties in this - because the effect of pricing, shelf placement, etc would all come into play in the store, but it is still an important measure of your brand strength and your advertising effectiveness.

I am not saying SMKW will be successful with this campaign. However, I am saying that the mere fact that we are even talking about this says something about the SMKW's motivation behind using the Queen name.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by cody6268 »

I dunno about the Chinese Schrades being poor sellers. They are literally everywhere these days--from Wally World, to Tractor Supply, to mom and pop hardware stores, to even knife stores. Every time I walk in the Farm Bureau, there's always two or three (different) models sold out every time I'm in there. They replaced Case with Taylor. And I don't get it. The knives are awful. Cheap steel, mediocre fit and finish. I throughly tried and tested 12OT, 5OT, LB7, and 834UH vs. their USA models, and the USA ones won out every time. There's a funny story on another forum how one of the ambassadors of that forum who visited the Schrade booth at SHOT actually broke a Chinese Tough Tool just handling it.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by bighomer »

Just a side note but ole smokey doesn't have the Chinese made Queen city listed on their web site. But you can find them on line. ::shrug:: ::handshake::
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Old Folder »

Below is a current listing of smkw.com listing of Queen City knives.
https://www.smkw.com/catalogsearch/resu ... t_limit=12

I just purchased the (USA) Queen City Red Smooth Bone QC19rs and the (Chinese) Queen City Abalone Canoe QC001 (Both with Queen City Mfg.)
There have been many members state that "He Said - She Said" about the quality. So, do as I did, buy your own, than share your results, don't depend on others to make your decisions or justify your own political negative reasonings.
I"ll post my results within a week.
I do not see the resemblance of the new Queen City knives in relation with Rough Ryder though. From the pictures, the bolsters, bolster's angles and blades are visually very different.

FYO, the Rough Ryder Upswept Bow Trapper RR2176 ($12.99) is back in stock at smkw.com. I received a "Back in Stock" email from them today and I purchased a couple more for gifting. A beautiful knife. (Better hurry though)
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Breeze »

I don't think Chinese Bucks should be lumped in with Schrade, Camillus, Marbles, or Queen, etc. The difference is these companies went belly up, somebody obtained rights to the name (Taylor, BTI, SMKW, Bluegrass) and farmed out production to the Chinese (In Schrade's case at least they continued to make the same Schrade patterns). These companies have zero in common with the original companies.

Buck, OTOH, is still Buck. The patterns made in China are Buck patterns and come with Buck's warranty and customer service. Its still the same, original, American company. I own a bunch of Bucks, none are Chinese. Chinese Bucks don't thrill me, but if it helps keep the company in the black with all its American employees, then so be it.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by GSPTOPDOG »

I posted this message on another thread, but it is the same topic, about Queen going down to "China-Town". I have a fairly big Queen collection, it is my most collected knife. So, for me this news is a big disappointment. ::facepalm::

My mother was born and raised in Titusville, PA. Some of her relatives (and therefore mine as well) worked in the Queen factory. My mother was born in the 1920's, so perhaps some of the old Queen knives that are out there still in collector's cases and maybe even in their pockets, were made by some distant relative of mine. It gives me a certain connection with Queen. I have even been to the factory and bought a couple of knives there several years ago. I am glad I went when I did and that I bought what I bought. Now it is just a bit of history and a memory.

::hmm:: I think I'll give up collecting knives and just start playing video games all day and night in the basement. ::disgust::
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Cayuga »

I collect knives like the waves at a beach. When it's incoming I'm on top of everything in the knife world, specifically the stuff I'm interested in. When the waves are going out, I loose interest. I've been collecting like this for four decades! LOL!! Definitely a long time.
So I heard rumbling about the fiscal problems at Queen. Then I heard it was gone, following the path of Western Cutlery (Boulder), Schrade, Camillus, and whatever.
Then i see a new Queen knife - a trapper. I have a feeling it's from my last place I visited - good ol' Shanghai. Sure 'nuff it tis! I like it. Why? It's cheap for starters. Secondly I want to carry a classic as an EDC. It looks pretty, pretty in the case I got. I'm looking for a stockman (available) or better yet a congress (nothing yet). All the Queens I've ever accumulated I never used. Too expensive! Too beautiful!! Literally pulling them out, I would start to drool. Embarrassing!!!
So I think I'm going to settle for a stockman as an EDC. Usually my EDC is a single blade, usually assisted, always a lock type of some sort. So I'm going to give the new Queens a try. Naturally I always carry a multi-tool, doesn't everyone?
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by LHacken »

I saw those... So sad...
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by razerface »

Are they marked china? Can the non-expert tell the diff?
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Mumbleypeg »

razerface wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:56 pm Are they marked china? Can the non-expert tell the diff?
To be in compliance with U.S. customs law all imports are required to be marked with Country of Origin. That’s why you see labels stating something like “Made in USA from foreign and domestic parts“ or similar. So if it’s made in China it should say so. That’s not to say the law is always enforced however. We see examples daily where the current regime chooses not to enforce existing laws. ::dang::

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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

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Mumbleypeg wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:34 pm To be in compliance with U.S. customs law all imports are required to be marked with Country of Origin. That’s why you see labels stating something like “Made in USA from foreign and domestic parts“ or similar. So if it’s made in China it should say so. That’s not to say the law is always enforced however. We see examples daily where the current regime chooses not to enforce existing laws. ::dang::

Ken
Yes, sadly it is rather easy to get around that. A company I used to work for had a manufacturing plant in China, and also one here in the US. They would frequently ship products from China to US, "supplying themselves with raw material" and nothing was ever checked through customs. All the US plant did was packaging and distribution.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by centennialknives »

I know his topic is a few years old, but I have a few vintage Queen folders. Just now, on evil-bay, I saw a beautiful NIB Queen, auction ending soon, for like $10. I nearly put in a bid until I looked at the tang stamp. Could NOT match it to any known Queen stamp -- but has pieces of other stamps.

Then I found this thread -- DANG. I didn't know SMKW was doing this. Seriously. Huge disappointment. I was about to ask -- open new thread -- before find this one.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Mumbleypeg »

SMKW bought the rights to the Queen name at the Queen bankruptcy auction. There are other threads about that here somewhere. SMKW owns the rights to several other old cutlery company names as, well as RoughRider/Ryder, I suspect they’re all made in the same Chicom factory. To my eye the knife you’ve provided pictures of looks exactly like a Rough Ryder.

Another similar situation using old cutlery names exists at Frost Cutlery.

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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by treefarmer »

Buying a Queen on ebay is just like buying an Old Timer, look close, a great deal and maybe a solid knife but all the same not a "real" knife that some of us desire. This discussion can turn political in a heartbeat, we all have our opinions. If someone gifts me with a new knife with an American name but obviously made over there, I'll thank them and not insult them by telling them how I really feel. :) The HOKs are getting harder to find and are certainly bringing a lot more money nowadays.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Alien883 »

carrmillus wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:01 pm
OLDE CUTLER wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:48 pm
carrmillus wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:24 pm
....the U.S. should quit importing ANYTHING from china!!!!...the virus is enough!!!!....... ::td:: ::td:: ::td:: ..........

While I generally agree with you, there are many products that have not been made in the US for many years. So in those cases we would have to do without. I don't know if I could do without a TV set for one. I have always been curious about posts like this. Are you bashing the Chinese government? (they certainly deserve all the bashing they get). How about the Chinese worker? (he is just like you and me, just trying to feed his family and put away a little money). Or the American businessman who sells out and takes the money and runs deserting all his obligations and employees. This last one is who I reserve my distain for.
.........there's nothing made in china that couldn't be made in the U.S.!!!!!..............to h--l with the commies!!!................. ::td:: ::td:: ::td:: .......................
Unfortunately we have long ago lost the connection to upper technology and so to speak missed the train, our phones, computer tooling machines and even war drones run on China made processors and electronics we are here in the good ole USA just can't produce...because we have not enough expertise!! That's a sad fact!!
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by OLDE CUTLER »

Alien883 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:24 pm
carrmillus wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:01 pm
OLDE CUTLER wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:48 pm
.........there's nothing made in china that couldn't be made in the U.S.!!!!!..............to h--l with the commies!!!................. ::td:: ::td:: ::td:: .......................
Unfortunately we have long ago lost the connection to upper technology and so to speak missed the train, our phones, computer tooling machines and even war drones run on China made processors and electronics we are here in the good ole USA just can't produce...because we have not enough expertise!! That's a sad fact!!
Has nothing to do with expertise. Everything to do with money.
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Re: Chinese Queens a Reality

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Not true, at least when it comes to electronics. The sad but true thing is the Chicoms have either been taught how to make them by western engineers, or have outright stolen the technology. Even despite patent rights, for which they have only contempt. The “upper technology” expertise is still ours - unfortunately we train many Chicom engineers in our best engineering universities.

The Chicoms use the money obtained from sales of goods (like knives among other items) to us to buy influence in politics, schools and universities, build war ships, planes, missiles, funding spy operations…………. I could go on but the point is made.

It is indeed all about the money.

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