Who's into S & M?

Schatt & Morgan knives were first manufacturer back in 1890. The Queen Cutlery company made most of the more recent examples, but Schatt had its own plant in its earlier years that cranked out the oldies. There is no shortage of fantastic Schatt & Morgan knives in existance that have been made over the brand's long & storied history.
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QTCut5
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

kootenay joe wrote:When were the S&M knives with "interior mammoth" released ? Are they still available through certain dealers ?
kj
Mine has a tang stamp of 1997.
Check out Plumbob's AAPK store...he has a few real beauties for sale.

https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/catalog/plumbob

~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by knowtracks »

PCwizard wrote:
knowtracks wrote:Hate to be the one that bursts your bubble PC. :(
But that swing guard was made in `93 as you stated, it is included in that years Annual Reproduction Series. The 3rd Series released, all 6 knives in Winterbottom bone, 600 sets made. The 1st year of the Annual Repro. Series, Queen made more than 600 sets, but all the rest of the years had 600 sets made.

Hope this isn't to bad of news to you! ::shrug::

Dave
If I posted the wrong info I'm Sorry. The Book I used was:

Blades Guild 7th Edition, Page 520, Line Number 13.
1993 Schatt & Morgan 06181 L Swing Guard SERIES III
File and Wire, Swing Guard Lockback, Winterbottom Bone


Don't know where they got their information PC but I'd be willing to bet half a years wages that Queen made 600 sets of Winterbottom bone with that swing guard included in the Annual Reproduction Series in `93
If you get a chance read "American Pocketknives" by David Krauss pretty sure the stats are in there. I know from talking to Clarence Risner many times what Queen was up to in those days. Clarence had more SFO's made during that period than everyone else combined, he made the Premier Series and was constantly talking with Jenny. But now Jenny is no long at Queen and Clarence has passed.
Here is the `93 set and also the 2000 set. 2000 was the 1st year the advertising actually showed how many set were produced. But all 20 Annual sets had 600 produced except the 1st year, 1991, I'm not sure exactly how many were made that year, but it was more than 600.

Dave
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

Quote QTCut5: "Check out Plumbob's AAPK store...he has a few real beauties for sale"

Wow ! Thank you. ivory whittler inbound.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Brumbydownunder »

Not sure if I have posted this previously but if I have it deserves a second run :D Pattern #80 Sway Belly
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by jerryd6818 »

knowtracks wrote:
PCwizard wrote:
knowtracks wrote:Hate to be the one that bursts your bubble PC. :(
But that swing guard was made in `93 as you stated, it is included in that years Annual Reproduction Series. The 3rd Series released, all 6 knives in Winterbottom bone, 600 sets made. The 1st year of the Annual Repro. Series, Queen made more than 600 sets, but all the rest of the years had 600 sets made.

Hope this isn't to bad of news to you! ::shrug::

Dave
If I posted the wrong info I'm Sorry. The Book I used was:

Blades Guild 7th Edition, Page 520, Line Number 13.
1993 Schatt & Morgan 06181 L Swing Guard SERIES III
File and Wire, Swing Guard Lockback, Winterbottom Bone


Don't know where they got their information PC but I'd be willing to bet half a years wages that Queen made 600 sets of Winterbottom bone with that swing guard included in the Annual Reproduction Series in `93
If you get a chance read "American Pocketknives" by David Krauss pretty sure the stats are in there. I know from talking to Clarence Risner many times what Queen was up to in those days. Clarence had more SFO's made during that period than everyone else combined, he made the Premier Series and was constantly talking with Jenny. But now Jenny is no long at Queen and Clarence has passed.
Here is the `93 set and also the 2000 set. 2000 was the 1st year the advertising actually showed how many set were produced. But all 20 Annual sets had 600 produced except the 1st year, 1991, I'm not sure exactly how many were made that year, but it was more than 600.

Dave
s249847959340461643_p23_i1_w612.jpg
s249847959340461643_p72_i1_w612.jpg
Spot on Dave. Those were the Keystone series. The first set made in 1991. The last, Series XX (20), made in 2010.

They did make a couple of swing guards in the File & Wire series.
The first was Series #1 Edition #2 made in 1999 and had a clip blade.
The second was in Series #2 Edition #4 made in 2003 and had a spear blade. Neither one had Winterbottom handles
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

Picked up another of my favorite S&M pattern: #41 Copperhead...in one of my favorite handle materials: Stag. What's not to like with this one? Perhaps I've just gotten lucky with my last few Queen/S&M/Queen City purchases, but it seems the quality is getting back up to the old Queen standard. Maybe the Daniels family is getting things back on track, I don't know; but, this Copperhead has nice smooth walk & talk (none of that gritty action I've come to fear and expect on S&M builds) and perfectly centered blade.
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~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by americanedgetech »

Darn. The thread title had me hoping... ::dang::
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by philco »

QTCut5 wrote:Picked up another of my favorite S&M pattern: #41 Copperhead...in one of my favorite handle materials: Stag. What's not to like with this one? Perhaps I've just gotten lucky with my last few Queen/S&M/Queen City purchases, but it seems the quality is getting back up to the old Queen standard. Maybe the Daniels family is getting things back on track, I don't know; but, this Copperhead has nice smooth walk & talk (none of that gritty action I've come to fear and expect on S&M builds) and perfectly centered blade.

P9270006.JPGP9270007.JPGP9270004.JPG

~Q~

Q I do know that the Daniels clan has worked diligently to improve the quality of the product that goes out their doors. I've talked to both Ryan and Ken Daniels about this and they both see quality as vitally important and have expressed a strong determination to move in a positive direction.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

Phil, that is music to my ears as I've been a fan and collector of Queen Cutlery for a long time. I hope they can find a way to keep going, I'm sure it's not easy; but, Queen is a genuine made in USA, true blue American company that I will continue to proudly support as much as I possibly can.

~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

Q, how is the blade grind and edge sharpness on your new Copperhead ? Standard rather thick grind and a dull edge ? Or is there improvement here as well ?
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

kootenay joe wrote:Q, how is the blade grind and edge sharpness on your new Copperhead ? Standard rather thick grind and a dull edge ? Or is there improvement here as well ?
kj
It has a decent grind and is very sharp. However, this Copperhead has Carbon Steel, and from what I have experienced, Queen knives with Carbon Steel (1095) tend to have a better grind and are sharper out of the box than their knives with D2 Tool Steel.

~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

Thanks Q. The thicker blade grinds and rather dull edges seemed to begin when Queen switched from 1095 to D2 ( ~ 1998 ? ). I have wondered if the employee doing blade grinding is only allowed a certain amount of time per blade. I have read that D2 takes more time to remove steel than does 1095.
If these statements are true then this would explain why Queen blades went from properly thinned grinds and sharp-ish edges to thick grinds with dull edges.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Quick Steel »

kj: Very interesting observation. It has been precisely in this area [sharpness/grind] that has provided some disappointment in several more recent S&M acquisitions. Somewhere recently I read Queen replaced their top executive.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

I think the S&M knives do not have D2 steel. I think they use either 420 or ATS-34.
Hence what i said above is likely not the situation as S & M knives have thick grinds as well and are not D2.
Hmmm, back to square one on "The Mystery of the Thick Blades".
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Railsplitter »

I bought this single spring wharncliffe Railsplitter a few months ago. It's a 2017 model and the quality is satisfactory for the most part. My only gripe with this one is that it looks like they held the tip of the wharncliffe blade on the sharpening wheel a second or two too long. It appears to have a burn mark on it right at the tip. (last pic)

I forgot to get a pic but the tang is stamped "U.S.A. Carbon" so this particular Schatt has carbon steel blades.

The knife has a feature that wasn't seen too often on pocket knives until Queen started doing it on some of their knives very recently. Anybody notice what it is?
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

It has slanted, pinched, grooved bolsters but i don't think that is what you are referring to.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Railsplitter »

kootenay joe wrote:It has slanted, pinched, grooved bolsters but i don't think that is what you are referring to.
kj
That's not it Roland but that was actually a pretty good guess. The feature I'm referring to is something that Queen started doing this year to the best of my knowledge. Possibly as recent as just a few months ago.

They have only done it on a few knives so far.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Railsplitter »

It has a Keystone shield on both sides.

While I'm on the subject of shields, both shields on this knife are pinned, not glued. I can see the pins pressed into the liners opposite the shields inside the blade well.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

Cool knife, Rick...very nice. ::tu::

~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Railsplitter »

QTCut5 wrote:Cool knife, Rick...very nice. ::tu::

~Q~
Thanks ~Q~ ! (I had to search my keyboard to find those little squiggly lines before and aft the Q) :mrgreen:
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

Railsplitter wrote:
QTCut5 wrote:Cool knife, Rick...very nice. ::tu::

~Q~
Thanks ~Q~ ! (I had to search my keyboard to find those little squiggly lines before and aft the Q) :mrgreen:
Well, you must have exceptional vision or a high resolution computer screen, or both, to even be able to distinguish the squiggly tilde (~) from a straight line hyphen (-)...it's all about the details.

Speaking of details...this Elk #41 Copperhead has a few interesting ones that are different from the standard pattern. Pretty obvious to anyone familiar with the Queen #41 pattern, I would think. It's always nice to have a little variation on a theme, IMO.
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~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by Railsplitter »

Very nice! I like Elk handles a lot and I really need to get more of them. Right now I only have one but it's not a Queen.

I'll take a stab at the details but I can only spot a couple:

The nail pull cut out and a satin finished full flat ground blade?
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

I see the hole in the blade as throwing the knife 'off balance'. It distracts the eye from the flow of the knife's lines. But of course it might look 'just right' to someone else.
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by QTCut5 »

Railsplitter wrote:I'll take a stab at the details but I can only spot a couple:

The nail pull cut out and a satin finished full flat ground blade?
...and the modified clip blade profile.
kootenay joe wrote:I see the hole in the blade as throwing the knife 'off balance'. It distracts the eye from the flow of the knife's lines. But of course it might look 'just right' to someone else.
kj
I agree that the cut out pull is less aesthetically pleasing, but it sure is functional; makes the knife ambidextrous and also easier to open with a pick (for us old geezers with arthritic hands that don't work so well anymore).

~Q~
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


~Q~
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Re: Who's into S & M?

Post by kootenay joe »

I feel the same way towards tactical style knives with jigged bone handles or inlay. The tactical style knives look better with sleek modern handle materials. And traditional style knives don't need a hole in the blade. But i don't mind at all if other people really like the mix 'n match look. There truly is a knife for everybody's taste.
kj
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