Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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Yehuda
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Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

Saw this on eBay. Anybody (rangerbluedog :D) familiar with this stamp and the scarcity of this knife? Looks like an English Jack and there are no tang stamps that I can see.
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

Got the knife today. It is an English Jack and a little dinged up. The tang stamps are no longer legible. I can't get a good enough pic of the bolster stamp, but there is enough left to make out U.S.A. above Böker. The only stamp I can find that resembles it is the first Böker U.S.A. tang stamp. Just can't find any info on it.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Nice looking knife! ::tu:: Goins shows a bunch of different marks used by Boker U.S.A. but that's not one of them.

That's all I got. ::facepalm:: Maybe a Boker expert will be along and tell us something more.

Ken
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

Mumbleypeg wrote:Nice looking knife! ::tu:: Goins shows a bunch of different marks used by Boker U.S.A. but that's not one of them.

That's all I got. ::facepalm:: Maybe a Boker expert will be along and tell us something more.

Ken
This is going to go either way. Maybe it's an uncommon knife or maybe a hack job. I had to fight it out with another bidder to get it so that's a good sign. I have a friend with a microscope and this weekend I'll take another crack at the tang stamps. I need to acquire this Goins I keep hearing about!
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djknife13
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by djknife13 »

I have a couple English jacks by different makers stamped on the bottom bolster and one, a H. S. & B., that is only stamped there. If it is USA made and the blade pin is showing that much, are you sure the blade is correct to the frame. German made knives such as the German Bokers often had steel pins in nickel silver bolsters. That could explain why the tang mark is missing. It could just be worn off too. Good luck. ___Dave
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

djknife13 wrote:I have a couple English jacks by different makers stamped on the bottom bolster and one, a H. S. & B., that is only stamped there. If it is USA made and the blade pin is showing that much, are you sure the blade is correct to the frame. German made knives such as the German Bokers often had steel pins in nickel silver bolsters. That could explain why the tang mark is missing. It could just be worn off too. Good luck. ___Dave
I thought that could be a possibility but the blades are so worn that I figured they had to be original. The top pin doesn't look right though. Ain't no telling what this thing has been through. This one and another knife I have will be getting work done one day.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Yehuda wrote:
Mumbleypeg wrote:Nice looking knife! ::tu:: Goins shows a bunch of different marks used by Boker U.S.A. but that's not one of them.

That's all I got. ::facepalm:: Maybe a Boker expert will be along and tell us something more.

Ken
This is going to go either way. Maybe it's an uncommon knife or maybe a hack job. I had to fight it out with another bidder to get it so that's a good sign. I have a friend with a microscope and this weekend I'll take another crack at the tang stamps. I need to acquire this Goins I keep hearing about!
Didn't mean to imply the knife isn't legit. I suspect it had a tang stamp that would be recognized if you can see it. Having a manufacturer's name stamped into the bolster is not uncommon.

As for Goins' Encyclopedia of Cutlery Marketings, IMHO it's an indispensable resource for any knife collector. You can get a copy from Knife World publications http://www.knifeworld.com/colkniv.html

Ken
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.

When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.

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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

Mumbleypeg wrote:
Yehuda wrote:
Mumbleypeg wrote:Nice looking knife! ::tu:: Goins shows a bunch of different marks used by Boker U.S.A. but that's not one of them.

That's all I got. ::facepalm:: Maybe a Boker expert will be along and tell us something more.

Ken
This is going to go either way. Maybe it's an uncommon knife or maybe a hack job. I had to fight it out with another bidder to get it so that's a good sign. I have a friend with a microscope and this weekend I'll take another crack at the tang stamps. I need to acquire this Goins I keep hearing about!
Didn't mean to imply the knife isn't legit. I suspect it had a tang stamp that would be recognized if you can see it. Having a manufacturer's name stamped into the bolster is not uncommon.

As for Goins' Encyclopedia of Cutlery Marketings, IMHO it's an indispensable resource for any knife collector. You can get a copy from Knife World publications http://www.knifeworld.com/colkniv.html

Ken
I didn't take it as an implication of being non authentic, I just keep open to all possibilities. You have to when dealing with this hobby.
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rangerbluedog
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by rangerbluedog »

That knife is from the 1940s to early 1950s.
I haven't seen it documented but I have often surmised that around the time of WW2 and after, Boker USA wanted to distance itself from the German trademark.
This stamp was also used on Boker barlow bolsters in the early 1950s.
This is a page from a 1954 knife catalog. You can just make out the "cloud" stamp on the bolster of the knife at the bottom of the picture.
Also note its use on the barlow knife.
cloud.jpg
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by djknife13 »

Sometimes you can tell if the blade is original to the frame by how the blade width matches up with the spring and how it sits in the frame. The spring can rest a little low because of normal wear, but if the don't match widths that is a red flag, but again it only suggests a problem and doesn't prove anything. Some blades are just unique enough so they are obvious and often if it's a cobbled job you can see it looking down at the blade/spring joint. To me this is all part of the excitement of the hunt for these old treasures. I've had some that I didn't see any problem with until I got it home, and some I bought and questioned it after, and it turned out all correct. Hope this one works out for you because it's a really good looking knife. I love those old English Jacks and I like happy endings. My gut feeling from what I can see of the knife is that it looks good. ___Dave
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

rangerbluedog wrote:That knife is from the 1940s to early 1950s.
I haven't seen it documented but I have often surmised that around the time of WW2 and after, Boker USA wanted to distance itself from the German trademark.
This stamp was also used on Boker barlow bolsters in the early 1950s.
This is a page from a 1954 knife catalog. You can just make out the "cloud" stamp on the bolster of the knife at the bottom of the picture.
Also note its use on the barlow knife.
cloud.jpg
Thank you sir! At the very least I've got a dinged up old school Böker USA. You seriously need to write The Böker Book. Not joking even a little.
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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djknife13 wrote:Sometimes you can tell if the blade is original to the frame by how the blade width matches up with the spring and how it sits in the frame. The spring can rest a little low because of normal wear, but if the don't match widths that is a red flag, but again it only suggests a problem and doesn't prove anything. Some blades are just unique enough so they are obvious and often if it's a cobbled job you can see it looking down at the blade/spring joint. To me this is all part of the excitement of the hunt for these old treasures. I've had some that I didn't see any problem with until I got it home, and some I bought and questioned it after, and it turned out all correct. Hope this one works out for you because it's a really good looking knife. I love those old English Jacks and I like happy endings. My gut feeling from what I can see of the knife is that it looks good. ___Dave
The spring doesn't feel right, whether from wear or having been worked on. I've already invested money into it and like you said, its a good looking knife, so my decision is to find a Böker English Jack with busted scales and good blades and Frankenstein myself a sweet knife. I really like this one and think she deserves the overhaul. I appreciate all your input and everything I can see tells me you're right. Thank you sir! Below you can see the blade length compared to the frame and above pics show the fit of the blade to the spring.
IMG_20170228_213619.jpg
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djknife13
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by djknife13 »

The blade length looks fine but I was wondering if the blade thickness and spring thickness match. That's a fair way to help determine if they left the factory as a couple or got hitched up later. Anything that is original, and maybe all of it is, I'd try to keep with the knife. Dave
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by Yehuda »

djknife13 wrote:The blade length looks fine but I was wondering if the blade thickness and spring thickness match. That's a fair way to help determine if they left the factory as a couple or got hitched up later. Anything that is original, and maybe all of it is, I'd try to keep with the knife. Dave
Maybe I'll send it to a pro to be tightened up and examined. I'm still to green.
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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djknife13 wrote:The blade length looks fine but I was wondering if the blade thickness and spring thickness match. That's a fair way to help determine if they left the factory as a couple or got hitched up later. Anything that is original, and maybe all of it is, I'd try to keep with the knife. Dave
What do you think? The springs are sitting low and that's the best pic I could get.
IMG_20170302_204337.jpg
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

Post by djknife13 »

To me and from what I can see they just look worn. They look, from the picture to match sizes. I'm pretty sure if a good repairman looked at it he could tell you if everything is original but it looks like it's all good to me, who admittedly is not a knife repairman. Sometimes the pin just gets worn or breaks and is replaced and often with steel instead of nickel silver. I still don't know enough about Boker to know if some of the German made ones came with pin material that didn't match the bolster material.____Dave
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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Thanks. Your input is very much appreciated!
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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djknife13 wrote:To me and from what I can see they just look worn. They look, from the picture to match sizes. I'm pretty sure if a good repairman looked at it he could tell you if everything is original but it looks like it's all good to me, who admittedly is not a knife repairman. Sometimes the pin just gets worn or breaks and is replaced and often with steel instead of nickel silver. I still don't know enough about Boker to know if some of the German made ones came with pin material that didn't match the bolster material.____Dave
I'm sending the knife to muskrat man Monday afternoon for a refurbishing job. I think it deserves a little TLC!!
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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I'm anxious to see how it turns out. ___Dave
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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djknife13 wrote:I'm anxious to see how it turns out. ___Dave
Stay tuned!
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Yehuda
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Re: Stamped Bolster English Jack?

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Got the knife back. It looks the same so no reason to post pics. Muskrat Man got the blades snapping, no wobble and the springs at the right height. Very happy with it.
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