GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

GEC specializes in highly collectable and premium quality usable pocket knives. The company's USA manufactured knives have quickly proven to be a big hit with both collectors and users who seek quality American craftsmanship.
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GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby Onearmbladejunkie » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:21 am

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby kootenay joe » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:36 pm

This is another example of commercial marketing incorrectly using a knife term/word. A whittler is a 2 spring, 3 blade knife in which the master blade bears on both springs. The GEC #29 is a 3 spring, 3 blade knife. It lacks the important feature of the master blade bearing on 2 springs.
So what is it ?
A 3 spring Cattle knife is a closer match. A Cattle knife usually has a spear point master blade, but it can also have a clip blade master.
Does it matter ?
I think so. It misleads those who are just getting involved with knife collecting. An agreed upon definition of knife terms is needed for meaningful discussion.
I am looking forward to eventually getting one of the #29 Cattle knives.
kj

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby m0nk » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:42 am

kootenay joe wrote:This is another example of commercial marketing incorrectly using a knife term/word. A whittler is a 2 spring, 3 blade knife in which the master blade bears on both springs. The GEC #29 is a 3 spring, 3 blade knife. It lacks the important feature of the master blade bearing on 2 springs.
So what is it ?
A 3 spring Cattle knife is a closer match. A Cattle knife usually has a spear point master blade, but it can also have a clip blade master.
Does it matter ?
I think so. It misleads those who are just getting involved with knife collecting. An agreed upon definition of knife terms is needed for meaningful discussion.
I am looking forward to eventually getting one of the #29 Cattle knives.
kj


KJ, you're right that the classic whittler has the split-back, two spring configuration, but I suspect that the "whittler" name on this #29 comes from the facts that the two secondary blades both pivot on the opposite end of the main blade, and the main clip folds in between the two opposite secondaries. Very similar to a cattle knife, but the cattle knives I've seen have the main and sheepsfoot both pivot from the same end, like the #98 Cattle Knife example. That's just my guess. I'd bet that GEC would use historical nomenclature.

The production pics show the backsprings in a black color. I've not seen this before. Are the finished backsprings still black? Or was that perhaps the carbon heat treat scale that had not yet been polished off? Anybody have any info on this?

- Lee

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby Modern Slip Joints » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:30 am

K. Joe,
Since 1990 Case's economy Whittlers have been three spring Whittlers. Queen's less expensive Whittlers had two springs with no wedge between them. Some times the two spring were tapered smaller toward the master end and some times the master was made out of thick stock so its tang would be as wide as the two springs. As far as I know all of Buck's Whittlers have had three springs. GEC's name for these 29s is consistent with how other U.S. manufacturers have been naming their knives for thirty years. My roughly ten year old 54 pattern GEC Whittlers have three springs so this is not new for GEC.

I do not know much about old pocket knives but some knives with spring assemblies other than a master bearing on two springs separated by a wedge were called Whittlers before WW II. Remington famously made lock back Whittlers that Queen reproduced. The two springs for their secondaries were separated by a wedge but those springs ended in the middle of the knife. The master had its own spring and back lock ahead of them. I'll go out on a limb and speculate that there were also three spring whittlers before WW II.

The same as with guns I like using the model names used by the knife's manufacturer.

I will not be buying one of these 29s but it has nothing to do with their spring assemblies. I do not use awls or punches often enough to justify giving up a cutting blade. If GEC replaced the punch with a Wharncliff similar to the one installed in 82 Dixie Stockmans then I'd be tempted.

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby Mumbleypeg » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:47 am

Interesting discussion, but to my thinking any knife having “stockyard” in the name, and no spey blade, is mis-named. Based on this and other pattern names I’ve typically seen from GEC, everyone in their marketing department must be city slickers who wouldn’t know a cow from a jackass. ::facepalm:: JMO

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby kootenay joe » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:38 am

Quote: " everyone in their marketing department must be city slickers who wouldn’t know a cow from a jackass. ::facepalm:: JMO"

Maybe not 'everybody' but as pointed out above, manufacturers misusing the name "whittler" is nothing new. It has been done many times in the last 100 years. "Whittler" sounds attractive and probably helps a knife sell. Most knife buyers are unaware that there is a definition of "whittler". They just like the knife they bought and like the thought of maybe one day whittling which the knife can obviously do because of it's name. Say it is a Cattle knife and not many people like the idea of hanging out with a bunch of cows. What a knife is called affects sales.
But in a forum dedicated to knife information we should be using correct knife terminology. A 3 spring knife is not a whittler even if some company called it a whittler 100 years ago.
A lockback whittler is a unique and old pattern and the short spring for the master blade is as thick as the 2 secondary springs. It is not the same as having 3 full length springs. A 3 spring knife is bulky, like a small brick in your pocket, whereas a lockback whittler is the same thickness as a regular whittler, not bulky.
Regardless of name this upcoming #29 will be a really nice knife, even though somewhat bulky. Unlike a poster above, i find a punch blade very useful and you never will need the tip of the clip to poke at something.
kj

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby KnifeSlinger#81 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:02 pm

kootenay joe wrote:This is another example of commercial marketing incorrectly using a knife term/word. A whittler is a 2 spring, 3 blade knife in which the master blade bears on both springs. The GEC #29 is a 3 spring, 3 blade knife. It lacks the important feature of the master blade bearing on 2 springs.
So what is it ?
A 3 spring Cattle knife is a closer match. A Cattle knife usually has a spear point master blade, but it can also have a clip blade master.
Does it matter ?
I think so. It misleads those who are just getting involved with knife collecting. An agreed upon definition of knife terms is needed for meaningful discussion.
I am looking forward to eventually getting one of the #29 Cattle knives.
kj


This pattern has a whittler blade setup. A true whittler is split spring but a knife can still be classified a whittler without split springs. The camillus 72 is an example of that.


I think this is an intriguing pattern and will likely be picking one up.
-Paul T.

Always looking for excellent to mint condition schrade cut co and walden knives. I really like stockman and cattle patterns.

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby Dinadan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:10 pm

I agree with KJ's point. I recall that we have had some pretty long discussions about the definition of whittler in the past. I guess is about time for another one! I was looking at the photos of the knife and thinking that I would might buy one since it does look appealing. But if it is a three spring whittler like the ones Buck made, then I guess I will pass. I would have felt misled if I had shelled out over a hundred dollars and then discovered that the knife was not really what I consider a whittler.
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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby Modern Slip Joints » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:07 pm

KnifeSlinger#81 wrote: [...] This pattern has a whittler blade setup. A true whittler is split spring but a knife can still be classified a whittler without split springs. The camillus 72 is an example of that. [...]
I agree that regardless of the springs two secondaries on one end and a master on the other makes a whittler but the Camillus 72 was a poor choice of an example. It has the basic features of a Stockman, one spring for a master and a secondary blade over each end of its second spring. It does not take a master clip with secondary spey and sheep's foot blaes for me to call knives Stockmans. Pen blades have been standard in Case's x333, x327, x3087 and x332 Stockmans for a very long time. I refuse to use Camillus' model name for their 72. However, I also refuse to call Buck's 110 a Folding Hunter using a capitalized F and H and I know I'll get no where with that argument. A better example that I did not remember when I wrote my first reply is Queen's three spring Railsplitter Whittler.

Multiple members wrote that naming whittlers that do not have split backs Whittlers can mislead buyers. That worked to get more money out of my wallet once. Case's 6308 Whittlers were split backs in the 1970s but more recently have been made both as split backs and three spring Whittlers. They have the same blades so I can not tell which is which from a side view. From observing Case Whittlers I got the wrong idea that the pattern number suffix WH meant split back then was disappointed when another three spring arrived.

On the good side three spring whittlers are not all that much thicker than split backs. Like three spring stockmans, since springs positioned beside each other have blades on opposite ends they do not require liners between the springs.

It's a great day to be a cantankerous old curmudgeon. :wink: ::super_happy::

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby kootenay joe » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm

Paul, it was Camillus marketing department that decided to promote the 72 pattern as a "whittler". This is no different from GEC in 2019 calling this 3 spring knife a whittler. Neither is a whittler pattern but this word helps sales so it has been 'over used'.
I have seen barehead jacks called a "Barlow" but they lack the long bolster so they are not a Barlow.
I believe it is important to use knife terms properly or in a few years we won't know what the other guy is talking about.
"Levine's Guide to Knives" explains every traditional knife pattern and their history. Every serious knife collector should have a copy, read it, and then refer back when examining a knife to refresh your memory. It also makes collecting more rewarding because most knives can teach you something when you read up on their history.
Knives are like any other item or topic, we need to know the basics before there can be meaningful discussion. To do otherwise promotes assumptions and mis-information.
kj

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby kootenay joe » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:20 pm

And "split spring whittler", is a one spring knife and these have not been made for about 150 years. I have been on the look out for one of these 'forever' but have yet to see one for sale. They are very rare.
kj

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby jerryd6818 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:11 pm

Modern Slip Joints wrote:It's a great day to be a cantankerous old curmudgeon. :wink: ::super_happy::

And you're doing a fine job of it. Keep up the good work. :mrgreen: ::tu:: ::handshake::
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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby Mumbleypeg » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:34 pm

kootenay joe wrote:I believe it is important to use knife terms properly or in a few years we won't know what the other guy is talking about.
"Levine's Guide to Knives" explains every traditional knife pattern and their history. Every serious knife collector should have a copy, read it, and then refer back when examining a knife to refresh your memory. It also makes collecting more rewarding because most knives can teach you something when you read up on their history.
Knives are like any other item or topic, we need to know the basics before there can be meaningful discussion. To do otherwise promotes assumptions and mis-information.
kj


::tu:: ::tu:: Amen! I agree totally. If we don’t have any universally accepted definitions in common, we’re the Tower of Babel. And for me at least, learning about the histories of knife patterns, blade shapes, and their evolution is a major part of the fun. Mr. Levine’s book is an amazing resource, as you’ve pointed out, for “every traditional knife pattern and their history.” I have read it cover to cover, but have to keep it handy as there’s way more in it than my feeble mind can recall. ::facepalm::

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby m0nk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:55 am

So in the #29 we've got a Eureka pattern, and cattle knife blades in a whittler configuration with three springs that's being called a "Stockyard whittler". Probably an identity crisis, but most of us can agree that it's a nice, well built knife with three useful blades...

But nobody here is talking about the elephant in the room... that awful acrylic handle cover! This grits and butter mess is only slightly better than some of the others on my Least Wanted List: dead skunk, pheasant pheather, or God forbid, Mardi Gras confetti. This one is nearly as terrible, and people are going to buy it anyway. After seeing the month-long #93 Mother Of All Lolly Scrambles, I think at this point GEC could make sparkeley kitty litter clump acrylic and put it on a knife designed for pithing lab frogs, and they would still sell like hot cakes.

- Lee

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Re: GEC#29 Stockyard Whittler knife 2019

Postby kootenay joe » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:31 am

"Clumpy Kitty Litter Acrylic" ! I bet it would be a hot seller. Lee are you in marketing ?
Folks, send pictures of your kitty's litter box to GEC so they can come up with the right look for this new handle material.
But i am a dog lover so i'm holding out for the "Doggie Dump" acrylic.
kj


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