Weak snap on a GEC?
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:43 pm
Just got a new 97 and I'm disappointed with the lack of spring power.
All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_forum/
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_forum/viewtopic.php?t=61606
There is indeed a range for acceptable tension. Breaking a nail trying to open a blade is on one end (too strong) of that range. Having to push the blade all the way into closed position, with no “snap” on closing is on the other end (too weak). Either is unacceptable IMHO. The acceptability in between those extremes is largely subjective depending on personal preference. Personally I prefer a tactile snap as the blade seats when opening, and an audible click when the blade seats on closing.kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
There is a range for acceptable spring tension.
kj
Blade “rapping” is almost ubiquitous in Laguioles and various other traditional French folding knife patterns. It is also quite common to find divots in the edges of the blades of a large number of Queen folders. I’ve noticed it rather frequently on the clip blade—and occasionally the sheepsfoot blade—of older (pre-1990s, two backspring) Case ‘47 stockman knives. I’ve also seen the occasional occurrence of blade rap on the spay blade of the Case ‘18 stockman pattern. I can’t speak from personal experience, but my customers have told me that it is a rather common occurrence on recently manufactured Böker trappers and larger stockman patterns. As a longtime collector of traditional French folders, I have learned to never let the blade slam shut on any folding knife—most particularly those with overly strong backsprings.Mumbleypeg wrote:There is indeed a range for acceptable tension. Breaking a nail trying to open a blade is on one end (too strong) of that range. Having to push the blade all the way into closed position, with no “snap” on closing is on the other end (too weak). Either is unacceptable IMHO. The acceptability in between those extremes is largely subjective depending on personal preference. Personally I prefer a tactile snap as the blade seats when opening, and an audible click when the blade seats on closing.kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
There is a range for acceptable spring tension.
kj
The GEC #35 Churchill I have, and made reference to in my post, is on the “push the blade all the way closed” end of the range. Came out of the tube from the factory that way. No audible click. Unacceptable. Period.
(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.)
Ken
As an Alaskan hunter, guide, and outdoorsman, I buy a knives to use. In this case the GEC 97.kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
My 97 is fairly easy to open and it has 'snap' into fully open and on closing as well as at half stop. When open it will not start to close on it's own unless i do something 'stupid'.
I have had knives (not GEC) with a spring so weak a light tap on the spine would knock it off the open position. If this is the case with your 97 then the spring is too weak. With my 97 it takes a firm tap to knock it off fully open and then it snaps briskly to half stop position.
There is a range for acceptable spring tension. Mine might be a bit on the soft side but it is still well within acceptable range.
kj
I second this!!!!!ken98k wrote:As an Alaskan hunter, guide, and outdoorsman, I buy a knives to use. In this case the GEC 97.kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
My 97 is fairly easy to open and it has 'snap' into fully open and on closing as well as at half stop. When open it will not start to close on it's own unless i do something 'stupid'.
I have had knives (not GEC) with a spring so weak a light tap on the spine would knock it off the open position. If this is the case with your 97 then the spring is too weak. With my 97 it takes a firm tap to knock it off fully open and then it snaps briskly to half stop position.
There is a range for acceptable spring tension. Mine might be a bit on the soft side but it is still well within acceptable range.
kj
When I've paid $106 for a folding hunter knife, I expect to be able to use it for hunting, skinning, butchering, etc. with wondering if the blade is going to close on my fingers.
I second that, too!kootenay joe wrote: If you want to be certain a blade will not fold shut ever while in use, use a fixed blade.
kj
First I’d like to correct a typo error in my statement - should say “over 50 years”, not “over 60 years”. I’m old, but not that old! I didn’t start intentionally “collecting” until about 1968.Greenman wrote:Blade “rapping” is almost ubiquitous in Laguioles and various other traditional French folding knife patterns. It is also quite common to find divots in the edges of the blades of a large number of Queen folders. I’ve noticed it rather frequently on the clip blade—and occasionally the sheepsfoot blade—of older (pre-1990s, two backspring) Case ‘47 stockman knives. I’ve also seen the occasional occurrence of blade rap on the spay blade of the Case ‘18 stockman pattern. I can’t speak from personal experience, but my customers have told me that it is a rather common occurrence on recently manufactured Böker trappers and larger stockman patterns. As a longtime collector of traditional French folders, I have learned to never let the blade slam shut on any folding knife—most particularly those with overly strong backsprings.Mumbleypeg wrote:
(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.[/b])
Ken
Ken, it looks like this. Just a small ding in the sharpened edge. It's easy to miss unless you are looking for it but it's noticeable when cutting certain materials. I cut a lot of shrink wrap at work and if I haven't already discovered the problem, I'll know about it then because the edge gets hung up on the shrink wrap.Mumbleypeg wrote:
Maybe I just don’t know what to look for. Anyone got pictures of this problem?
Ken
Assuming the tang is configured ideally...it is designed to hit the backspring and prevent this. Often users report...if they notice this...after a couple of sharpenings, the blade no longer is long enough to hit the backspring.ken98k wrote:Well I guess I've got it wrong all these years, thinking a strong mainspring was good thing. I guess I should throw out all my old knives that have alligator snap.
Anyone interested in a couple hundred junk knives that make too much noise when you open and close them?
All this time I’ve been thinking that the purpose of the blade kick on a properly built knife was to keep the sharpened part of a blade from contacting the backspring. That click sound you should hear on closing is when the kick hits the backspring, not the blade hitting.Doc B wrote:Assuming the tang is configured ideally...it is designed to hit the backspring and prevent this. Often users report...if they notice this...after a couple of sharpenings, the blade no longer is long enough to hit the backspring.ken98k wrote:Well I guess I've got it wrong all these years, thinking a strong mainspring was good thing. I guess I should throw out all my old knives that have alligator snap.
Anyone interested in a couple hundred junk knives that make too much noise when you open and close them?
RIck, I have that Dr.’s knife, I will have to look for that. Now I am going to be checking all my knives for that pin.Railsplitter wrote:I do consider it a defect. The risk of blade rap should be taken into consideration by the manufacturer when designing the pattern. There are at least two manufacturers who agree and have done something about it.
Both A.G. Russell and LoinSteel incorporate a Striker Pin to prevent blade rap. The tang strikes the pin which sits well above the backspring eliminating the risk of blade rap. It's as if they said "Like good snap but hate blade rap? Here, let me fix that for ya".
A.G. Russell Doctor's knife. Note how far above the edge the tang is. Still no blade rap because the Striker Pin prevents it.
IMG_4711.JPG
IMG_4712.JPG
LionSteel Otnat. Same concept.
IMG_4462.JPG
IMG_4457.JPG
These are obviously knives of a more modern variety but it's nice to see that the problem was recognized and resolved by these two makers.
I've had my fair share of knives where the edge hits the backspring when you close it. A few because they snap so hard, the rest most likely because of improper tolerances. Two of those are 1965-69 cases. I sharpened one of them out, the other one I put a little shim under the kick. I'm at the point now that I can tell when the blade hits the spring by the sound, it has a more dull thud sound when it happens.Mumbleypeg wrote:(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.)
Ken