Weak snap on a GEC?

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ken98k
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Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby ken98k » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:43 pm

Just got a new 97 and I'm disappointed with the lack of spring power. :(
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Doc B » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:48 am

Just saw this reported by another user. Don't know if this is common :(
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=61102&p=722402&hilit=GEC+97#p722402
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Lansky1 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:57 am

I bought a possum skinner and had the same reaction - disappointed in what I would consider a lazy snap of the wharncliffe blade. Some GEC patterns just seem to have better snap than others (I have a powderhorn that has amazing snap) ...
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:54 am

The #35 Churchill. ::td:: ::td::

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Tsar Bomba » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:04 am

I get a single-spring opposite-end knife having snap that isn't earth-shaking, but a large single-blade jack with what should be a substantial spring and the ability to pivot it off the centerline should NOT be hard to make snappy. Heck, every daddy Barlow I own has similar construction and they all sing opening and closing (minus the one or two old imports that came to me damaged or worn).

Hoping the 2 coming to me have at least acceptable snap and safe, useful slipjoint lockup.
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:31 am

Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
My 97 is fairly easy to open and it has 'snap' into fully open and on closing as well as at half stop. When open it will not start to close on it's own unless i do something 'stupid'.
I have had knives (not GEC) with a spring so weak a light tap on the spine would knock it off the open position. If this is the case with your 97 then the spring is too weak. With my 97 it takes a firm tap to knock it off fully open and then it snaps briskly to half stop position.
There is a range for acceptable spring tension. Mine might be a bit on the soft side but it is still well within acceptable range.
kj

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:40 am

kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?

There is a range for acceptable spring tension.
kj


There is indeed a range for acceptable tension. Breaking a nail trying to open a blade is on one end (too strong) of that range. Having to push the blade all the way into closed position, with no “snap” on closing is on the other end (too weak). Either is unacceptable IMHO. The acceptability in between those extremes is largely subjective depending on personal preference. Personally I prefer a tactile snap as the blade seats when opening, and an audible click when the blade seats on closing.

The GEC #35 Churchill I have, and made reference to in my post, is on the “push the blade all the way closed” end of the range. Came out of the tube from the factory that way. No audible click. Unacceptable. Period. ::barf::

(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.) ::shrug::

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Greenman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:47 am

Mumbleypeg wrote:
kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?

There is a range for acceptable spring tension.
kj


There is indeed a range for acceptable tension. Breaking a nail trying to open a blade is on one end (too strong) of that range. Having to push the blade all the way into closed position, with no “snap” on closing is on the other end (too weak). Either is unacceptable IMHO. The acceptability in between those extremes is largely subjective depending on personal preference. Personally I prefer a tactile snap as the blade seats when opening, and an audible click when the blade seats on closing.

The GEC #35 Churchill I have, and made reference to in my post, is on the “push the blade all the way closed” end of the range. Came out of the tube from the factory that way. No audible click. Unacceptable. Period. ::barf::

(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.) ::shrug::

Ken

Blade “rapping” is almost ubiquitous in Laguioles and various other traditional French folding knife patterns. It is also quite common to find divots in the edges of the blades of a large number of Queen folders. I’ve noticed it rather frequently on the clip blade—and occasionally the sheepsfoot blade—of older (pre-1990s, two backspring) Case ‘47 stockman knives. I’ve also seen the occasional occurrence of blade rap on the spay blade of the Case ‘18 stockman pattern. I can’t speak from personal experience, but my customers have told me that it is a rather common occurrence on recently manufactured Böker trappers and larger stockman patterns. As a longtime collector of traditional French folders, I have learned to never let the blade slam shut on any folding knife—most particularly those with overly strong backsprings.
Josh

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby ken98k » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:48 am

kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
My 97 is fairly easy to open and it has 'snap' into fully open and on closing as well as at half stop. When open it will not start to close on it's own unless i do something 'stupid'.
I have had knives (not GEC) with a spring so weak a light tap on the spine would knock it off the open position. If this is the case with your 97 then the spring is too weak. With my 97 it takes a firm tap to knock it off fully open and then it snaps briskly to half stop position.
There is a range for acceptable spring tension. Mine might be a bit on the soft side but it is still well within acceptable range.
kj

As an Alaskan hunter, guide, and outdoorsman, I buy a knives to use. In this case the GEC 97.
When I've paid $106 for a folding hunter knife, I expect to be able to use it for hunting, skinning, butchering, etc. with wondering if the blade is going to close on my fingers.
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Doc B » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:39 pm

ken98k wrote:
kootenay joe wrote:Why do you want a stronger spring ? Because you like chipping your thumbnail trying to open blade ? Or because you like the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap driving the blade onto the spring pin ?
My 97 is fairly easy to open and it has 'snap' into fully open and on closing as well as at half stop. When open it will not start to close on it's own unless i do something 'stupid'.
I have had knives (not GEC) with a spring so weak a light tap on the spine would knock it off the open position. If this is the case with your 97 then the spring is too weak. With my 97 it takes a firm tap to knock it off fully open and then it snaps briskly to half stop position.
There is a range for acceptable spring tension. Mine might be a bit on the soft side but it is still well within acceptable range.
kj

As an Alaskan hunter, guide, and outdoorsman, I buy a knives to use. In this case the GEC 97.
When I've paid $106 for a folding hunter knife, I expect to be able to use it for hunting, skinning, butchering, etc. with wondering if the blade is going to close on my fingers.

I second this!!!!!
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:48 pm

I was describing the 97 i received. Yes i can knock it off the fully open position with a fairly strong 'rap' with my fingers onto the spine but it will not close on it's own while in use unless i make a 'backwards' move of some force. The blade makes a good audible sound when snapping to fully open and fully closed. I do have other Folding Hunters with stronger springs but this 97 is perfectly usable/acceptable as it is. Other 97's might have different spring tension. My point is a slip joint does not need very strong springs. They need enough tension to keep blade closed, and open when used properly.
My 97 has enough spring tension.
I have 2 Northfield 97's coming: ebony and yellow rose bone. I will post their spring tensions when i have them.
If you want to be certain a blade will not fold shut ever while in use, use a fixed blade.
kj

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Doc B » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:56 pm

kootenay joe wrote:If you want to be certain a blade will not fold shut ever while in use, use a fixed blade.
kj

I second that, too!
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:20 pm

In the future GEC could do a run of 97's with a liner lock for those who want to be certain they will not inadvertently cause blade to move from open to half stop. Could have a swing guard too so as to really differentiate it from these original 97's.
Or, Northwoods, take note: liner lock swing guard 97 with mammoth & giraffe handles :D
kj

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:28 pm

If you do not yet have a 97 you can ask a dealer to "please check a few of these and send me the one with the strongest spring. If all are wimpy please get back to me before filling this order".
Most GEC dealers will do this if you ask them to.
kj

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:45 pm

Greenman wrote:
Mumbleypeg wrote:
(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.[/b]) ::shrug::

Ken

Blade “rapping” is almost ubiquitous in Laguioles and various other traditional French folding knife patterns. It is also quite common to find divots in the edges of the blades of a large number of Queen folders. I’ve noticed it rather frequently on the clip blade—and occasionally the sheepsfoot blade—of older (pre-1990s, two backspring) Case ‘47 stockman knives. I’ve also seen the occasional occurrence of blade rap on the spay blade of the Case ‘18 stockman pattern. I can’t speak from personal experience, but my customers have told me that it is a rather common occurrence on recently manufactured Böker trappers and larger stockman patterns. As a longtime collector of traditional French folders, I have learned to never let the blade slam shut on any folding knife—most particularly those with overly strong backsprings.


First I’d like to correct a typo error in my statement - should say “over 50 years”, not “over 60 years”. I’m old, but not that old! :lol: I didn’t start intentionally “collecting” until about 1968.

Thanks for the information. Laguioles and French-made knives in general haven’t interested me so I have not examined more than a handful at most. Queens and especially Cases however are a different story. I couldn’t begin to guess how many Case pocket knives I’ve handled, mostly pre-1980 vintage, mint condition and otherwise. I have carried and used 18 and 47 (specifically 047) pattern Stockmans most of my life. Somehow I’ve missed any having the “blade rapping” phenomena.

Maybe I just don’t know what to look for. ::shrug:: Anyone got pictures of this problem?

Ken
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