All About Pocket Knives

There's an active post here on this site about a Case "Prototype" etching on the main blade. The discussion kind of took a left turn and folks were discussing possible marketing schemes used to make a knife seem more valuable than it really is.

The use of etchings such as "Prototype", "First Production Run", and others were pointed out. So here's my question on that subject:

Where does GEC's "PPP" designation fit into this discussion? Take the new #43 Trapper. The Tidioute Brand that comes in Frontier Bone, Red Rust Bone, and Canvas Micarta all come with that PPP on the backside of the blade. You can't get one that doesn't have that etching.

The Northfield ones don't have it but all the others do. So based on the discussions about that Case prototype etching, do these new #43 GEC's fit into that category as well?

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Mike

It means "Pattern Production Premiere".

jerryd6818 wrote:It means "Pattern Production Premiere".

I know what it means, but the question I was asking was, does that etching fall into the same category as the others stated in the post about the prototype etching on that Case knife?

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Mike

Yep,Just another way to make the buyer think he's getting a one of a kind rarity.

The PPP doesn't mean much to me but I think it might come in handy several years from now. Especially on knife forums like this one. Somebody might want to know when a pattern was first released and that can be a little tricky to look up on the GEC website. If somebody has the pattern with a PPP etch they could simply post a couple pics and the question is answered.

Only one variant can truly be the "Premier". Considering that more than one variant has the etch, it screams marketing gimmick in my opinion.

Good point.

I assume that is a fancy way to say "First Run"? Sales & Marketing dweebs ruin everything. The universe would be a better place if Sales & Marketing departments did not exist. Of course, I also say the same thing about Accounting, Finance, Legal, HR, Compliance, Regulatory, or any other department not involved in either designing the product, making the product or directly helping those people design & make the product...

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote:I assume that is a fancy way to say "First Run"? Sales & Marketing dweebs ruin everything. The universe would be a better place if Sales & Marketing departments did not exist. Of course, I also say the same thing about Accounting, Finance, Legal, HR, Compliance, Regulatory, or any other department not involved in either designing the product, making the product or directly helping those people design & make the product...

At one time in my career I was in marketing. I thought marketing and sales steered the ship. Then I moved to Operations, and there was where I learned marketing's steering wheel isn't connected to the ship's rudder!

Ken

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote:I assume that is a fancy way to say "First Run"? Sales & Marketing dweebs ruin everything. The universe would be a better place if Sales & Marketing departments did not exist. Of course, I also say the same thing about Accounting, Finance, Legal, HR, Compliance, Regulatory, or any other department not involved in either designing the product, making the product or directly helping those people design & make the product...

Case, Queen, et al. seem to use "First Run" to signify the first knives off the line of a particular year's pattern, although they may have used them for newly-premiering knives as well like GEC does with the "PPP" etch. I think GEC only puts the PPP on the very first variants of the same pattern (note that on the 43s, as well as the 18s which was the last new pattern I purchased, the PPP is only on the Tidioute knives and not the Northfield brand). I've noticed NF tends to come after Tidioute if GEC is running both brand names during production. It's probably not a hard and fast rule but I have seen it trend that way.

That being said, in the long run I doubt the "PPP" stamp itself will be the driver of any particular value increases compared to desirable handle materials or long-anticipated patterns (I'm thinking large copperhead here). If anything, the "pete and repeat" SFO knives (TC Barlows, 77 NF Barlows, Northwoods) are the ones that see the biggest bumps next to the exotic handle materials like mammoth, abalone, etc.

XX Case XX wrote:

jerryd6818 wrote:It means "Pattern Production Premiere".

I know what it means, but the question I was asking was, does that etching fall into the same category as the others stated in the post about the prototype etching on that Case knife?

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Mike

No offense intended. I didn't get that out of your post.

jerryd6818 wrote:No offense intended. I didn't get that out of your post.

Jerry no worries. I took no offense Sir. I just got to thinking about that "PPP" etch on the new #43's and the past #18's that GEC made and was wondering if some of you more experienced fellas thought it compared to "prototype & first run etches" on other knives is all. I know some of the guys here don't like those etches on the blade.


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Mike

XX Case XX wrote:

jerryd6818 wrote:It means "Pattern Production Premiere".

I know what it means, but the question I was asking was, does that etching fall into the same category as the others stated in the post about the prototype etching on that Case knife?

__________
Mike

GEC has always put the PPP on there first "run" of a "new pattern" regardless of handle material or production total* -- normally they run the TIDIOUTE labels first --when a ""New Pattern"" is introduced, "all" the Tidioute in the first run will have the PPP bling** __ the Northfield & Great Eastern ( if they run a batch ) ,nor the second run of Tidioute will have the PPP** -- **ONLY** the ""first run / batch"" of knives, will have the PPP bling** -- at one time,this was a ,plus++, for collectors _ as was getting the knife with 002 serial number ( 001 was always kept in the factory collection* ) not so much anymore due to production changes / totals** -- still the best American made pocket knife IMHO**

PS -- I have seen GEC knives have several ""Prototype"" knives for the same pattern ( more than once ) and the Prototype knives ""selling price" was more from the dealers** --- in the early years, some were even stamped ""Factory Test Production"" when they would try a unique handle material** -- was a lot of fun collecting & trying to keep abreast of all the happenings !!!

Mumbleypeg wrote:

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote:I assume that is a fancy way to say "First Run"? Sales & Marketing dweebs ruin everything. The universe would be a better place if Sales & Marketing departments did not exist. Of course, I also say the same thing about Accounting, Finance, Legal, HR, Compliance, Regulatory, or any other department not involved in either designing the product, making the product or directly helping those people design & make the product...

At one time in my career I was in marketing. I thought marketing and sales steered the ship. Then I moved to Operations, and there was where I learned marketing's steering wheel isn't connected to the ship's rudder!

Ken

Ken - From what I have seen, I suspect you are too rational and have FAR too much integrity to be successful in Marketing...

Thank you, you're too kind. I was fortunate to work for a company that placed high value on a culture of ethics, corporate citizenship, product quality and reliability, and honest treatment of everyone - customers, suppliers, and employees. That wasn't just what they said, it's what they did. Flim-flam artists didn't last long there, in marketing or anywhere else.

Ken

What I really dislike is the fact that many or most of these inane marketing ploy markings are just etched on. It is easy for fakers to copy some etches and since the original manufacturer has the stencils on hand they can print more out any time they desire. Of course Stamping the marks in would require more work, but it would be harder to copy. I would not pay extra for any knife with these "prototype", first run", or "PPP knives. As in all collectible areas things that were made to collect really don't ever increase greatly in value since all produced are often tucked away for posterity and are always found in new condition. Buy a "collectible Christmas plate" and in fifty years you may be able to find a buyer who will give you a very small amount of interest on your investment.

big monk wrote:

XX Case XX wrote: GEC has always put the PPP on there first "run" of a "new pattern" regardless of handle material or production total* -- normally they run the TIDIOUTE labels first --when a ""New Pattern"" is introduced, "all" the Tidioute in the first run will have the PPP bling** __ the Northfield & Great Eastern ( if they run a batch ) ,nor the second run of Tidioute will have the PPP** -- **ONLY** the ""first run / batch"" of knives, will have the PPP bling** -- at one time,this was a ,plus++, for collectors _ as was getting the knife with 002 serial number ( 001 was always kept in the factory collection* ) not so much anymore due to production changes / totals** -- still the best American made pocket knife IMHO**

PS -- I have seen GEC knives have several ""Prototype"" knives for the same pattern ( more than once ) and the Prototype knives ""selling price" was more from the dealers** --- in the early years, some were even stamped ""Factory Test Production"" when they would try a unique handle material** -- was a lot of fun collecting & trying to keep abreast of all the happenings !!!

Yes, and you can verify them by production totals given on the site. Hard to fool anyone that takes time to research a GEC.

I wasn't paying enough attention when these patterns were released to know if they came before Tidioute or GEC sub brands. One of these knives with the PPP designation is a SFO knife for Blade Forums (harness jack 35). The other is a Northfield Texas Camp Knife 98 pattern.

I'm not trying to dispute or refute any comments made earlier - just providing examples of where the PPP designation can end up being used.

Tangent alert: The 35 harness jack is my most carried knife. The spear blade & punch configuration is very well suited to light use daily knife needs.