Better than Stocks

GEC specializes in highly collectable and premium quality usable pocket knives. The company's USA manufactured knives have quickly proven to be a big hit with both collectors and users who seek quality American craftsmanship.
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gsmith7158
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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby gsmith7158 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:11 pm

I could be way off on this but in the past couple of days it seems like there has been a glut of GEC knives entering the eBay market place with very low starting bids and some selling at or near retail. A lot of the offerings at traditional retailers seem to be lingering for long periods of time as well. Could the GEC rage be cooling?
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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby kootenay joe » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:54 am

Greg i agree that there are a few ebay listings of recent GEC releases that are priced at the original dealer price and so far no takers. For example there are # 35 Churchill knives at original price on ebay and at some dealer sites. However many of the 'older' releases still sell at multiples of original price. As an example here is a #57 from 2010 with horn handles that just sold for $440 four days ago.
I think the GEC 'craze' continues, not for every GEC knife but for many of the older releases especially those with more rare handles.
kj
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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby gsmith7158 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:50 am

I would agree with that assessment Roland. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, catches fire from this point on.
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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby robbobus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:30 am

Watching eBay sales can leave a person scratching their head til its shiny bald. I collect mainly GEC knives these days. Mainly Northfield and I click watch on most patterns I like.
There has been a 48 Diamond Jack sfo for sale for $87 for a month plus. Beautiful knife, I have 2 in the dark and 1 in the amber. Tonight a different amber 48 auctioned off for $167.50 with 8 bidders vying for it. As for the bargain priced 48? ::ds::
Another older 2 blade 48 Diamond Jack was up for auction with a start price of $125. Kind of a hedge betting number for the seller and I guess too high for every single collector except me. The last 2 years that knife has brought at least $175 on eBay.
I think its how knives, or anything, is marketed which determines final selling price.

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby kootenay joe » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:39 pm

"I think its how knives, or anything, is marketed which determines final selling price."
Yes, and for GEC knives much of the 'marketing' takes place in the Traditional forum at BladeForums.
For at least the last 6 or more years number of posts about GEC knives exceed posts on all the other brands. Every new release gets discussed and hyped up in the weeks leading up to availability at dealers. People the post with the knives they scored before dealer sold out which often takes only minutes. It is competitive shopping and all involved want to be a winner so thoughts of how much is being spent are pushed aside in the frenzy to score.
However nothing lasts forever and maybe some of the new collectors are moving on to other traditional knives.
I hope the GEC craze cools a little. Selling every knife within minutes of it's release does not encourage GEC to keep their standards high.
kj

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby Tsar Bomba » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:48 pm

Just an idle suspicion, but I expect when all is said and done in 2017 we're going to see much higher production runs of all the standard-line knives (with the occasional sold-out short-run SFO, like the #35 banana bone, being the exception rather than the rule). I also suspect certain lines, like the #25 Barlow run, will not display production increases like most of the rest of the new patterns did.

Again, just a W.A.G. but I expect the numbers will bear me out when the production totals are compiled for the year.
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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby kootenay joe » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:07 pm

"W.A.G." ? = Wild Bum Guess ? Warts Are Growing ??
Increase production numbers ? or, increase price ? most likely some of both.
I think what is most needed is for Queen to really get their act together. Their recent knives look outstanding, very attractive but the blade grinds work best on butter. If they can finally do blade grinds that cut with ease right out of the box, then GEC will have serious competition.
I think GEC needs some stiff competition to avoid complacency and a decline from the high standards they have established.
kj

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby Tsar Bomba » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:12 pm

kootenay joe wrote:"W.A.G." ? = Wild Bum Guess ? Warts Are Growing ??

Could be both, depending on context. :lol:

My hopes for Queen to put some overall market pressure on GEC in both standard-line and high-end offerings persist, and I do believe the Daniels have done a tangible job correcting some of the QC problems and general malaise of the brand, but I don't know if it's happening fast enough or generating enough excitement among twice-bitten dealers to overcome old negativity (more than one of the major GEC first-run dealers have publicly groused about negative experiences -- plural -- with Queen over QC, delivery, or other issues).

Queen's 2017 catalogue does have a large number of breathtakers but that's when the cost analysis kicks in and I think right now people are choosing GEC for their premium production knife dollars. The status quo isn't always easy to maintain, however. If GEC's QC gets spottier and Queen continues to improve, there could easily be an inversion in the market.

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:53 pm

Greg, your observation that the GEC 'rush' might be cooling off seems to be the case. I just watched three #48, all recent 2017, 2 with excellent Stag & 1 with Jigged bone, CC SFO. Sold at $72, $79 & $97; i.e. new current production all selling for below dealer selling price. Have not seen this for years.
And a new Northwoods Lincoln Jack with burlap Micarta that was fetching very high prices now just sold at $150 which is close to price from dealer.
This might be a temporary post 'Black Friday' burn out effect or a sign that the market for GEC knives is getting close to fully saturated.
Let's keep watching and see which way the GEC secondary market goes. Even if it is tending down i think certain patterns with certain handles will continue to get high prices.
kj

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby Tsar Bomba » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:21 pm

kootenay joe wrote:Greg, your observation that the GEC 'rush' might be cooling off seems to be the case. I just watched three #48, all recent 2017, 2 with excellent Stag & 1 with Jigged bone, CC SFO. Sold at $72, $79 & $97; i.e. new current production all selling for below dealer selling price. Have not seen this for years.
And a new Northwoods Lincoln Jack with burlap Micarta that was fetching very high prices now just sold at $150 which is close to price from dealer.
This might be a temporary post 'Black Friday' burn out effect or a sign that the market for GEC knives is getting close to fully saturated.
Let's keep watching and see which way the GEC secondary market goes. Even if it is tending down i think certain patterns with certain handles will continue to get high prices.

There might be something to this, kj. I managed to snag a sheepsfoot TC Barlow in ebony just this week for what I figure is a hair above what a new run of TCs would cost retail right now. Seems like a year ago this knife would have sold for a minimum of $200 on the secondary market within days of release. A jigged bone variant from the same run (2015 IIRC) went for a little more than I wanted to spend, a shade north of $150, but that seems to be trending slightly down too. I imagine stag handle material and the "exotics" will be the last to suffer any price drops.

Charlie, commission that camel bone 2-blade one-armed TC Barlow ASAP before prices start slipping!

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby m0nk » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:30 am

Since the last post, I think two events have happened that bear mentioning in this thread. First, the Northwoods Delta Jack craze happened. This shows that no bubble has burst on premium knives, or on the even crazier scalper market that ensued afterward. Second, the #78 American Jacks were produced in large enough numbers that legit buyers had a reasonable chance of getting the knife they wanted. To me the #78 release shows good faith on GEC's part, that they are not trying to create artificial scarcity on a knife they knew would be very popular. I think that GEC produces the highest quality product on the market today, and that KSF has cracked the code on a knife that many people want, plain and simple.

I also wish Queen would produce better knives to compete better with GEC. I got two S&M knives for Christmas, and both were defective. The clip blade on my S&M quart gunstock jack was rapping against the backspring, causing a flat spot on the blade edge. Unacceptable. Back to KSF it went. My S&M stag #99 Executive Jack has a visible gap between the liner and the blade tang, you can see straight through it, yet it inexplicably has a strong pull anyway. Only reason I didn't return it is because my dad got it for me and he said it was the most beautiful knife he's ever seen. So I'm keeping it.

Look, I'm one of the most miserly people you'll meet, and I'm buying GEC knives now because I think they're worth the price. A recent convert to traditional knives, I started out with Case knives and it wasn't long before I wanted something more. So I returned the last defective Case knife I bought and traded up for a Tidioute #14 boy's knife. The first GEC I bought was a #35 Churchill. I returned that Churchill because the sheepsfoot blade was too thin, beautiful though it was in the maroon micarta covers. Now I'm more careful about single backspring, opposite end blades, and crink-grinding, and I make sure I know what I'm getting when I buy a knife. There are some nice looking Queens for sale now, but I'm gun shy about Queens and I'll probably just wait however many years until GEC makes the configurations I want.

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby Tsar Bomba » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:14 am

Queen has closed their Titusville facility and for all intents and purposes appears to be ceasing operations, pending a big turnaround by the Daniels. Oddly enough, that event seems to have precipitated a run on Queens on the secondary market. I've watched multiple Queen Barlows go for triple what they used to cost. Ironically, the Drake Well Barlow which I've been seeking for under $300 for years popped up on a certain auction site and ended up selling for $80. I only missed out on it because of technical difficulties. Next time I see one I'm putting in a max $150 bid and letting it ride no matter who tries to snipe it.

As far as GEC's products go, and Northwoods now that Queen is no longer in the picture, I can only see current trends continuing/getting more exaggerated. Considering all the 36s, 78s and 81s left at dealers, I wouldn't say GEC is trying to inflate their values by creating 'artificial' rarity as a rule. I do, however, think they tend towards creating scarcity on super-anticipated patterns like the TC Barlow, 77 NF Barlow, 36 Sunfish, Whaler, 25 jacks, and a few others. That, in turn, creates the secondary market we've seen that rivals or beats anything the new Northwoods are fetching. Since the secondary market is purely the domain of collectors and doesn't impact GEC in the slightest, it behooves sellers to snap up these shorter and more popular runs (leading to the "lolly scramble" culture when they are released) and guarantees the cycle continues.

I really did think the 2016 TC Barlow was going to represent a break in that pattern. Unfortunately, with them going for north of $220 on the secondary market, I don't think Charlie's vision of "a Barlow in every pocket" was -- or will be -- met by the TC.

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby m0nk » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Geez, that's bad news about Queen. I can only hope that after their reorg they come back stronger, with better designs and quality. I think everyone wins when there's healthy competition in the market.

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby kootenay joe » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Monk, the news is that Queen is closing down, not reorganizing. Someone might buy the rights to the brand names and have knives made but they would not be the 'real' Queens.
kj

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Re: Better than Stocks

Postby m0nk » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:53 pm

That's bad news indeed. True, I don't like their current products, but I was always hopeful that they'd adjust and make knives that I'd like. We'll just see what happens next. Who knows, maybe their facility and workers will become a second GEC factory and they can double their production! Wasn't Ken Daniels was associated with GEC at one time? Crazy talk, I know. Just wishful thinking. Or, worst case scenario, maybe we'll start seeing $20 Queen brand knives on Amazon made by chicoms like Imperial, Schrade and Camillus. And some Bucks.

Lee


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