northfield genuine stag melon whittler - a review

[mito0]

well, my wait is finally over.
after seeing the initial tidioute version of the melon whittler, i really wanted one.
then, when i heard the northfield version would have a wharncliffe blade, i really, really, REALLY wanted one.
what can i say? i'm a sucker for whittlers and wharncliffes.

alright.
i need to get this off my chest.
i'm really not a big fan of great eastern knives.
don't get me wrong - i'm extremely happy that an american knife making company is enjoying this kind of success.
but, i just don't like the "collector's item" mentality.
knives are tools, and can certainly be works of art, but they're not toys.
to me, the serial numbering and certificate of authenticity crap just reeks of "kid stuff."
i like knives that are limited and hard to find and all that, but i've had it up to here with serial numbers.
knives are meant to be used and enjoyed and carried, not locked away in a vault like a relic.
personally, i'd be heartbroken if i made knives that were never going to be used in any way.
i have no idea why a company would try their best to make sure all of their knives ended up locked away in a safe.
but, maybe that's just me.
alright - i got it off my chest.
on with the review.

when i saw a photo of the new and improved melon whittler, i was hooked.
i picked out the best looking stag on the available knives, paid my money, and waited.
today, the postman delivered my little box full of joy.
i ripped it open, dug out the familiar cardboard tube, and held my breath.
the first thing i noticed was a label, signed and numbered, with the words "GENUINE STAG" at the top.
and then, the label went on to explain everything you'd ever want to know about... mammoth ivory.
seriously.
nobody caught this?
"oh, well," i thought, "what really matters is on the inside."
and with that, i popped the top and dug out the goodies.
let me first say that this is, in my humble opinion, the best design great eastern has ever made.
their trappers are really cliche and uninspired.
their congress pattern brings absolutely nothing new to the table.
their barlows and sleeveboards are too short and fat.
i could go on and on.
but this one is just plain purty.
it's totally original, elegant, sturdy, comfortable....
and, it looks 10 times better with the wharncliffe blade than the old spear blade.
the elongated sleeveboard shape makes it feel more like a surgical tool in your hand than a pocket knife.
this thing just oozes class and sophistication without being sissy.
in other words: it's a damn near perfect design.
the split springs, the thick master blade, the thoughtful and functional swedges, the threaded and pinched bolsters... everything blends together in a symphony of cutlery excellence.
but, looking a bit closer, my eyes began to clear, and i began noticing some details that were a bit... lacking.
most obviously (to me) - none of the blades match up with the springs when they're open.
none of them.
there should be a flat, smooth transition from the spring to the spine of the blade, but all of these are stair-stepped.
frankly, this is just poor execution on a brilliant design.
had the pivot holes been properly drilled, and the tangs properly ground, this wouldn't be an issue.
the next thing i noticed was the polishing.
all three blades still have clear grinding lines, particularly near the tang.
again, this is just sloppy work, and should never have been permitted to leave the factory.
and, even though this knife was brand-frickin'-new, all three blades and the springs were covered in handling scratches.
what the hell?!
all of the nail marks exhibit a half-black half-silver mess that's just plain unattractive.
personally, i like my nail marks to be black.
some people (like w.r. case & co.) like them to be silver.
either way, it looks a lot worse when it's half and half.
seriously, great eastern. this just looks ugly.
the same goes for the threads in the bolsters. they just look unfinished and blotchy with black.
make them one or the other, not a little bit of both.
also, this (pardon my french) pussy blade etch has got to go.
either stamp it properly, or leave it alone.
this sissy stuff doesn't look good and isn't durable.
it sucks on schatt & morgans and it sucks on these, too.

some folks might say i'm being too picky.
maybe so.
but this knife cost $160.
that's pretty much smack dab in the middle between entry-level custom & queen, price-wise.
therefore, it's reasonable to expect a knife that's better than a queen, but not as good as a custom job.
but it's not.
quality-wise, it's no better made than your run-of-the-mill case or queen, frankly.
it uses one of the most inexpensive steels (although, personally, i really like 1095), the most inexpensive liners and pins (brass instead of nickel silver) and the most inexpensive blade marking (etch instead of stamp).
so, where's all the money going?

now, this isn't to say the knife is a total flop.
great eastern, right now, does the best stag in the business.
period.
no one else is even close.
the stag on mine is reasonably dark, and exhibits the best figuring it possibly could.
whoever hafted this knife knew what he/she was doing.
none of the blades exhibit any play, and they're all perfectly centered opened and closed.
there are absolutely no gaps between the stag and liner or liner and springs or springs and divider.
all the pins and pivots are reasonably clean and none of them caused any splits in the stag.
whoever came up with this pattern (presumably bill howard) deserves a bonus on his paycheck.
well done!

in the end, i'll keep it.
it's not worth $160.
it's not worth $120, for that matter.
but it's a nice knife that feels good in my hands, and that goes a long way with me.
oh, and i will be polishing off the stupid frickin' blade etch and the stupid frickin' serial number.
and i will actually use it to cut stuff!
maybe that'll make everyone else's more valuable!

3 1/2 stars out of 5

[smallmouth]

Thanks for the comments. I'm tempted to pick up one of the new melon whittlers myself.

I have to agree about GEC serializing and such. It's goofy because generally they continue producing the exact same knives, only unserialized. Many times buying a non-serialized version will save you several dollars. But it may be what they have to do to get started in the current market.

I have to wonder how much nitpicking is reasonable, particularly if the knife is intended as a user. I'm a complete n00b, and only own a few GEC knives. I bought them all to use. I can find something wrong with each one of them. But most of it is cosmetic. For the most part they're completely mechanically sound—and with use the cosmetic niggles will hardly be noticeable.

Not that I'm disagreeing with your comments. $160 is a premium for a pocketknife, and I'd be disappointed too if the fit and finish weren't near perfect.

[mito0]

generally they continue producing the exact same knives...

exactly
how many "limited editions" of the exact same knife can a company possibly make before people start feeling a little screwed?
although, you're absolutely right - it's that lame "collector's item" marketing that got them off the ground in the first place, so it was certainly a good thing in that regard.

thanks for the kind words about the review.
i do tend to be pretty picky when it comes to the cosmetic details, even though they usually have nothing to do with the actual usefulness of the knife.
i guess opinions are like a$$holes - everyone's got one and they usually stink.

[Darksev]

Nice review . I have a few comments to interject on some points you mentioned.

First off, the serial numbers and "Collectors" paperwork. While I also buy knives to use, not collect, you have to understand that the slipjoint market is predominately collectors nowadays. If I pulled 100 random knife carriers off the street, I will almost guarantee that 60% of them are carrying some form of imported "Tactical" type sub $30 monstrosity. Maybe 20% are carrying a buck or buck clone, the rest would be either old slipjoints or some reasonably inexpensive Case or equivelient import SS job. As the age of the knife carrier drops, so does the quality. Kids my age that are carrying knives are not carrying anything I'd even consider owning. The market for the Queen, Schatt, Canal Street and GEC products is simply to small to not cater to "Collectors" with every series. That they make non-numbered runs at all impress me immensely. This is something that as knife users, I think we're stuck with permanently.

As for 1095 as an inexpensive steel, I disagree with you on that point entirely. While the physical steel itself is inexpensive, the tooling and experience required to work with it at the production level is not. 1095 is not suited to fine blanking, as it's high carbon content causes excessive die wear. This increases the number of grinding and finishing steps required to complete the finished blade. It requires a more controlled and precise heating and tempering cycle to reduce the chances of blade warping or cracking, and bad tempering can leave the blades to hard or to soft to function correctly. This is why you have not seen 1095 steel in mass production knives since Schrade went out of business. If GEC wanted to be cheap, and really wanted to make an inexpensive knife, they could do so easily with the use of 420 series stainless steels. I hope this never happens. ever.

With regards to the etches, I agree that the old etches were horrible, especially the 1 of 50 type etch. The new ones are significantly better. are talking about stamping the face of the blade with information, as opposed to etching it? I don't think that would work, for a number of reasons, but that's a whole nother discussion.

[Jody744]

I can't decide if I would like one of these or not. I am
anticipating the N GA knife show to have some
to handle. I agree in a sense about some of their knives,
their larger knives are not as appealing to me.
That goes for me with any brand.
As far as serial #'s go, leave them for the collectors,
buy the nonserialized ones. the blade etch will wear
off soon enough with use
personally I enjoy the barlow's, but that is just me.
As far as them catering to collectors in this economy,
I am glad if that helps them to stay in business, cause
I ain't buying enough to keep them afloat

[mito0]

As for 1095 as an inexpensive steel, I disagree with you on that point entirely. While the physical steel itself is inexpensive, the tooling and experience required to work with it at the production level is not. 1095 is not suited to fine blanking, as it's high carbon content causes excessive die wear. This increases the number of grinding and finishing steps required to complete the finished blade. It requires a more controlled and precise heating and tempering cycle to reduce the chances of blade warping or cracking, and bad tempering can leave the blades to hard or to soft to function correctly. This is why you have not seen 1095 steel in mass production knives since Schrade went out of business. If GEC wanted to be cheap, and really wanted to make an inexpensive knife, they could do so easily with the use of 420 series stainless steels. I hope this never happens. ever.

i totally agree with you about 420 steel. however, i'm not sure about your other theories, other than the tricky heat treating/tempering of 1095. olbertz has been mass producing knives with 1095 non-stop for decades. camillus mass produced 1095 blades right up to the very end. queen still makes a great number of 1095 knives every year. i think 1095 has fallen out of favor with users more than manufacturers. most people nowadays generally don't want to fiddle with a rust-prone carbon steel. in fact, even a large number of knife collectors haven't the slightest idea how to care for it, given the sheer number of reasonably new collector's knives i've purchased over the years that had rust spots all over them. it's still far, far cheaper to produce knives using 1095 compared to practically any premium steel, even taking into account all the things you mentioned. imagine how much harder it is to stamp D2 compared to even 1095. and yet, queen uses it for all of their standard knives.

are talking about stamping the face of the blade with information, as opposed to etching it? I don't think that would work, for a number of reasons, but that's a whole nother discussion.

really? fight'n roosters? weidmannsheils? loads of pocket knives have stamped blades (most of them using 1095, btw), and they look outstanding.

[mito0]

As far as serial #'s go, leave them for the collectors,
buy the nonserialized ones. the blade etch will wear
off soon enough with use

i really wish i could've found a non-serialized genuine stag, but i don't know if they even made one.

As far as them catering to collectors in this economy,
I am glad if that helps them to stay in business, cause
I ain't buying enough to keep them afloat

good point.
there's certainly no doubt that collectors, not users, are keeping the slipjoint market afloat, as darksev also pointed out.
and, i have to give great eastern a great deal of credit for offering their knives in non-numbered versions.
in fact, i was very tempted to buy one of the non-numbered orange jigged bone whittlers until i heard about the modified northfield versions in genuine stag.
in the end, the "collector's item" crap wasn't a deal breaker, to be sure, but it just seems so lame to me

[fergusontd]

My 301 Buck Stockman has the "420" steel and I use it for an everyday carry. I find it to be an exellent blade. Any carbon steel knife i've ever carried has always rusted so badly no matter how well i've taken care of it. This is why I always buy stainless to carry. ftd

[Darksev]

olbertz has been mass producing knives with 1095 non-stop for decades. camillus mass produced 1095 blades right up to the very end. queen still makes a great number of 1095 knives every year.

This may have a bit to do with the cost of 1095 with regards to GEC as well. They really don't have the capabilities to manufacture or purchase on a scale like that. Cost per unit goes up as the volume of units decreases. If it cost queen the amount it cost me to make a single knife from basic carbon steel, they'd be bankrupt in months

I've not run across a blade with a stamped face before, that's a new trick for me. I would think the whole process of blademaking (as I know it, which isn't that fantastic) would need to be reordered a bit (instead of stamp, temper, grind, finish it would need to be stamp, grind, stamp anneal, tempter, finish or something like that). I thought that the bulldogs and roosters were just a very deep etch, similar to what the old Aurum type etchings were (but not on that scale). I could be wrong though.

[mito0]

I've not run across a blade with a stamped face before, that's a new trick for me. I would think the whole process of blademaking (as I know it, which isn't that fantastic) would need to be reordered a bit (instead of stamp, temper, grind, finish it would need to be stamp, grind, stamp anneal, tempter, finish or something like that). I thought that the bulldogs and roosters were just a very deep etch, similar to what the old Aurum type etchings were (but not on that scale). I could be wrong though.

here's how the guys in sheffield and solingen do it:
first the blade is forged, then maker's marks, nail marks and blade stamps are struck.
then the blade is rough ground, then hardened and tempered.
then given a final grind, and polished.

[mito0]

My 301 Buck Stockman has the "420" steel and I use it for an everyday carry. I find it to be an exellent blade. Any carbon steel knife i've ever carried has always rusted so badly no matter how well i've taken care of it. This is why I always buy stainless to carry. ftd

420hc is a decent steel when heat treated properly and paul bos, who heat treats buck's blades, is the best in the business.
taking care of carbon steel is easy. just rub a very thin layer of oil on the blade after you clean it off at the end of the day. that'll keep it from oxidizing.
i've got carbon bladed knives that are over 100 years old that still look brand new.

[fergusontd]

My 301 Buck Stockman has the "420" steel and I use it for an everyday carry. I find it to be an exellent blade. Any carbon steel knife i've ever carried has always rusted so badly no matter how well i've taken care of it. This is why I always buy stainless to carry. ftd

420hc is a decent steel when heat treated properly and paul bos, who heat treats buck's blades, is the best in the business.
taking care of carbon steel is easy. just rub a very thin layer of oil on the blade after you clean it off at the end of the day. that'll keep it from oxidizing.
i've got carbon bladed knives that are over 100 years old that still look brand new.

I was in the Navy and around salt water (carried a Buck 110) ,I also worked in metal prep and curing depts. in a factory. It was very hot and steamy and caused me to sweat alot, this is the biggest reason for the rust happening! This is why I have perfered stainless over the years. ftd

[Jody744]

mito0-
when do we see a pic of your knife?
maybe a before and after shot???

[fergusontd]

Jody744. If you were refering to me, the knife I was using at that time was an Old Timer stockman. I'm still trying to get it back from my son-in-law. I gave it to him to use and he really likes it. Not sure of the model number, but I bought it about 1985. The knife I carry now, which I replaced the Old Timer with, is the one that is my avatar picture. ftd

[easternknives]

I'm wondering why it's $40 cheaper than the "genuine stag" ones.

Note: The post above has been edited to remove an inappropriate link so the response below may seem somewhat confusing.
Phil (moderator)

No it's not Smallmouth. But that's another thing I don't understand. Why genuine stag costs so much more than burnt stag. I would think it should be the other way around. To me there is more work involved by burning the stag. Maybe someone else knows why.



Edited to remove inappropriate link.

[knifeswapper]

When they get their stag in and are sorting / matching it, they set the truly perfect old style slabs aside for future use. The vast majority is used on the burnt stag models and the burning just takes a minute at the finishing table. When they get enough of the slabs in the genuine pile, they will make a run without the shield and no burning as to leave the full beauty intact.

I have seen burnt stag slabs that I liked every bit as well as the genuine; and genuine that I was not very impressed with. But, by in large, the genuine stag is a super example of perfect vintage looking stag.

The "Genuine Stag" is definitely for the collector that wants to pay a premium for a slab that is a little something special.

[smallmouth]

Thanks for the info, all.

[tongueriver]

I like both the burnt and "genuine" stag very much. They are both charming in their own way. The serial numbers and etches are sort of ho hum to me. They neither add nor detract from the knife really, in my personal subjective value system. I think the shields suck. All of them from all the companies except a few from custom makers and very old ones. The ones with wording or initials on them are particularly ugly. I have a GEC Northfield #23 with genuine stag and no shield and I think it represents a step up. Shields to me are nothing more than garish advertising, most of the time. And it costs money to put the damn things on. What do the rest of you think about shields? Oops; looks like I may have gotten off the track a bit. Sorry.

[easternknives]

Yes that's another thing I forgot to mention when trying to realize the cost difference. The shields. I'm still not convinced. Alot of those burnt stags seem to have alot better texture? than quite a few of those genuines that came through IMO. Maybe more money because less are made in most instances.

Back to the shields, I agree with you Tongueriver. The plain ones aren't too bad, but I don't think they should have put any on those mammouth ivories that came out. All that money for it why hide any of it?

[mito0]

hey guys.
mike over at http://collectorknives.net/ has a batch of non-serialized burnt stag whittlers in stock.
they're priced right at $110.78 a pop.

[Aimus Moses]

I'm just glad to see a pocket knife company that has the guts to use 1095 carbon steel for their blades. GEC not only uses 1095 but they make good carbon steel blades that hold an edge and do what they were made to do, work! Some collector some where can have all the purty shiny stainless steel bladed knives that I refuse to buy. I can live with that loss. I will not buy or own a knife that I would not use. If it can't work, it doesn't stay here no matter how purty the handles are. If a knife is being bought for it's looks (to be purty) and to never be used, why not cut the knife building costs even more and use aluminum to make the blades? It shines up purty and it wouldn't make any difference what the blades are made of if all it has to do is look purty, right? Wouldn't have to worry about it rusting up on you. I'll take a rust prone 1095 carbon bladed work knife over a shiny, purty, non-working, only to be looked at knife any day. But hey, that's just me. A knife is a tool first and a jewel second to me.

Aimus

[smallmouth]

hey guys.
mike over at http://collectorknives.net/ has a batch of non-serialized burnt stag whittlers in stock.
they're priced right at $110.78 a pop.

I saw that last night and was trying to forget.

[mito0]

I'm just glad to see a pocket knife company that has the guts to use 1095 carbon steel for their blades. GEC not only uses 1095 but they make good carbon steel blades that hold an edge and do what they were made to do, work! Some collector some where can have all the purty shiny stainless steel bladed knives that I refuse to buy. I can live with that loss. I will not buy or own a knife that I would not use. If it can't work, it doesn't stay here no matter how purty the handles are. If a knife is being bought for it's looks (to be purty) and to never be used, why not cut the knife building costs even more and use aluminum to make the blades? It shines up purty and it wouldn't make any difference what the blades are made of if all it has to do is look purty, right? Wouldn't have to worry about it rusting up on you. I'll take a rust prone 1095 carbon bladed work knife over a shiny, purty, non-working, only to be looked at knife any day. But hey, that's just me. A knife is a tool first and a jewel second to me.

Aimus

aimus, i'm with you 100% on that one.
1095 might be my favorite steel - certainly in my top 2 or 3, at least.
and i agree that a knife is tool first and foremost.
that said, i think a $160 knife should be both very usable and very purty.

[Jody744]

show us a pic. mito0

[mito0]

sure, here you go.

here's a nice clear view of the sissy etch:



this knife gets my vote for "best new pattern of the year."
really, really well designed.



here's the cardboard tube that tells you all you'll ever need to know... about mammoth ivory.