Camillus pocketknife I can’t identify

[Theo]

Hey everyone trying to figure out this little guy, that I picked up last week. It’s a 4 liner, and 3 3/8 inches closed. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.-

[Reverand]

I have a very similar Camillus, also without a pattern number.
Yours is older, and may possibly have celluloid covers. Mine are jigged, but still synthetic.
It is a great little pen knife, though smaller than I normally carry.
I also await information on these.

[Reverand]

I Googled up some old Camillus catalogs. They are not early enough to show your exact knife, but I would guess that ours might both be a #41.
In the 1949 catalog the #41 is listed as genuine Carbone handles, and in the 1955 it is listed as Bonestag. Neither is exactly what we have in handle material, but they are definitely Senator Pen knives.
The #42 goes from "Genuine Sea Pearl" to "Nu Pearl" so I imagine that handle materials vary from year to year.
Anyway, if we cannot narrow it down more exactly, then I am going to claim that my Camillus Senator Pen knife is a #41 pattern!

[beresman]

I have two similar (long line) Camillus knives. The candy-striped on is a re-handle that I did some time back--the original handles were a synthetic that was shrinking and curling back at the edges. It's marked 41 and is 3-3/8" long.

The other is original, as far as I can tell, also synthetic. It's marked 410, and as you can see in the last photo, the difference is that the 410 is slimmer than the 41. Of course, the 41 doesn't have the original handles, but you can see that the bolsters on the 410 are also thinner.

[jerryd6818]

That 41 Senator is a fine little knife. Was around since the 1940s and into the 1990s.
The 410 is just a newer version of it. It didn't last long.

[ea42]

I Googled up some old Camillus catalogs. They are not early enough to show your exact knife, but I would guess that ours might both be a #41.
In the 1949 catalog the #41 is listed as genuine Carbone handles, and in the 1955 it is listed as Bonestag. Neither is exactly what we have in handle material, but they are definitely Senator Pen knives.
The #42 goes from "Genuine Sea Pearl" to "Nu Pearl" so I imagine that handle materials vary from year to year.
Anyway, if we cannot narrow it down more exactly, then I am going to claim that my Camillus Senator Pen knife is a #41 pattern!

I don't think the OP's knife is a 41. Those were 3 1/8" and the OP's knife is larger at 3 3/8".

Eric

[jerryd6818]

" It's marked 41 and is 3-3/8" long." Measuring error??

[beresman]

I don't think the OP's knife is a 41. Those were 3 1/8" and the OP's knife is larger at 3 3/8".

Eric

The catalog shows the 3-1/8" spec, but the actual knife in my hand (and in the photos I posted), which is marked "41" is 3-3/8" closed. Perhaps something changed between the date the catalog was published and the time my 41 was produced?

[Theo]

I just remeasured mine, just in case and it is 3 3/8 , good points on everything posted, mine also mine has the shield and the line on the bottom of the bolster, I know sometimes different versions might pop up. I am still googling and looking myself also, appreciate the help we might find answers for us all.

[Theo]

Well I forgot, that I had a 41 , big difference between the two, when don’t remember what you have , you might be getting old.

[Reverand]

Wow, back to doing research.

[Theo]

Wow, back to doing research.

I hear ya , well think I will do some more research tonight.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

This mystery has been bugging me all day! I am fairly sure the forum has seen this issue before - a Camillus equal end pen knife that is 3-3/8", but the only catalogs we have access to say the #41 is 3-1/8" and there is no equal end pen that is 3-3/8". I recall us talking about a possible catalog error, or a measurement error, or a 3 or 4 blade 3-3/8 knife that had blades removed. Those possibilities seem pretty remote to me...

I have been trying to use the forum search to see if I could find anything (our forum search is not the sharpest knife in the drawer). The only thing I have found so far is this: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=20082&p=253999#p253999

But, that's a knife that was made by Camillus, but not marked as Camillus. Arrgghh - I wish there was more info online for pre-1946 Camillus. I have had numerous times when I could have used more info and I have never found a good resource.

[Ripster]

Don’t see a 41 in the op knife ? This is not a 41 !!! Pre Ww2 Camillus used 3 and 4 digit numbers that got assigned by customer/ sales / or certain specs . Have over 80 4 lines and some have that number and some don’t . As far as I know ,and if you read thru some of the Camillus threads here you’ll read what am referring to here . Smitty and , Vit and I had a long conversation regarding this . We found better resources are the old Hardware store Catalogs. You won’t find much from Camillus before 1946 in print. So it’s a customer number that got assigned to the model of knife they ordered .
Have you figured out the handle material yet ? Is it pyroxylin or real tortoise . Again the way to test it is here in the forum !!
Take care out there folks .

[Theo]

Don’t see a 41 in the op knife ? This is not a 41 !!! Pre Ww2 Camillus used 3 and 4 digit numbers that got assigned by customer/ sales / or certain specs . Have over 80 4 lines and some have that number and some don’t . As far as I know ,and if you read thru some of the Camillus threads here you’ll read what am referring to here . Smitty and , Vit and I had a long conversation regarding this . We found better resources are the old Hardware store Catalogs. You won’t find much from Camillus before 1946 in print. So it’s a customer number that got assigned to the model of knife they ordered .
Have you figured out the handle material yet ? Is it pyroxylin or real tortoise . Again the way to test it is here in the forum !!
Take care out there folks .

Not yet Ripster on the handle material, tired tonight tried blowing it up on the super magnifying app on my phone, my eyes can be playing tricks on me, it really looks layered, but won’t commit yet. Great idea looking up old hardware store catalogs , I’ll them a good search tomorrow evening. But thanks , I appreciate it very much

[ea42]

I'm pretty certain that's a 1930's up to very early '40's knife. As Ripster mentions there's very little catalog info out there for those early Camillus knives. Might be a pattern that was discontinued post-war. I would imagine that it's some type of celluloid as there was very little real tortoise put on knives in those years.

Eric

[Ridgegrass]

Sticking my nose in here. Try rubbing the scales hard and fast with a silk or rayon cloth and sniff them. Celluloid should give a camphor odor. And there's always the hot needle test if you can find a spot where it won't show. (Just my humble two cents.) Good luck. Nice old knife. J.O'.

[1967redrider]

Sweet old 4-liner.

[Theo]

Sticking my nose in here. Try rubbing the scales hard and fast with a silk or rayon cloth and sniff them. Celluloid should give a camphor odor. And there's always the hot needle test if you can find a spot where it won't show. (Just my humble two cents.) Good luck. Nice old knife. J.O'.

I will give it another try on the rubbing with silk, didn’t smell anything the first time maybe didn’t rub hard enough, but not doing the needle trick… …

[Theo]

Sweet old 4-liner.

Thanks buddy, got it for a song, and I was singing all the way home.

[Theo]

Sticking my nose in here. Try rubbing the scales hard and fast with a silk or rayon cloth and sniff them. Celluloid should give a camphor odor. And there's always the hot needle test if you can find a spot where it won't show. (Just my humble two cents.) Good luck. Nice old knife. J.O'.

I will give it another try on the rubbing with silk, didn’t smell anything the first time maybe didn’t rub hard enough, but not doing the needle trick… …

Shoot I rub and rub , put on buffing wheel, I can not smell a thing on it…

[Theo]

I'm pretty certain that's a 1930's up to very early '40's knife. As Ripster mentions there's very little catalog info out there for those early Camillus knives. Might be a pattern that was discontinued post-war. I would imagine that it's some type of celluloid as there was very little real tortoise put on knives in those years.

Eric

That’s my thinking on the age of the knife, I am pretty sure it is a celluloid handles, now I gotta find my damn glasses cause I don’t know what I am typing is correct … but with all the rubbing and buffing I did get a lot of the scratches out of the handles, I love the color of them….

[Ridgegrass]

Not to be instructive here but I'd take it easy with that buffing wheel. Celluloid heats up quickly and I have damaged a couple nice scales myself. Good luck. J.O'.

[Theo]

Not to be instructive here but I'd take it easy with that buffing wheel. Celluloid heats up quickly and I have damaged a couple nice scales myself. Good luck. J.O'.

No go right ahead, it doesn’t bother me a bit. The funny thing is I started buffing it then , you know the voice in my head said wait , if it heats up you could have a big problem here. So it took about a day buff just a small are and very short time, then stop. Amazing how that voice in our head has saved me, but I’ll be damned if doesn’t speak up more often, I could saved a lot of money and headaches…..but thanks buddy I know what you are saying and caught myself,

[Ridgegrass]

Theo, If it's not celluloid, maybe it's tortoise. Looking at it, it doesn't have the mottling of most tortoise, but who knows ? Maybe it's just kind of plastic.
Mystery?? J.O'.
Personally I'd do the needle test somewhere along the back near the bolster. A very small needle, red hot won't damage the knife or it's value. IMHO