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Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:55 pm
by bocaj
I have a nice two blade knife stamped AWWadsworth and SON. Not usual SONS. I hope this indicates an early 1900s knife can someone give me some feedback ? It has hammered pins and a nice Swedge. Thanks for opinions.

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:20 pm
by Doc B
I can't answer your question...but, that's a beautiful knife!!! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:34 pm
by Mumbleypeg
I’m interested to see what the experts say about this one, as I’ve always known of Wadsworth & Sons to be one of the “import” brand names used on German-made knives. The Wadsworth & Sons brand was owned by Kastor Brothers, who contracted them to be made in a German factory (some were marked Austria also). All I’ve ever seen were made in Germany (or Austria) but a German firm named Wadsworth doesn’t compute. The Germans did make a lot of knives stamped with English sounding names however.

It is a nice looking knife, as are most Wadsworth knives.

Ken

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:45 pm
by MT-Vessel
FYI
Kootenay Joe wrote in Dec 2019:
Wadsworth" is a name invented by A. Kastor an importer in NYC, for a line of knives he imported from Germany. He purposely chose a British sounding name thinking that anti-German sentiment might hurt sales. Various knife manufacturers made the "Wadsworth" knives. They are of decent quality. Yours is a Barehead jack pattern and in the 3 1/2" size is often referred to as a "Boy's knife".
The one you have is reasonably common. A few show up on ebay every year. As they now are ~ 100 years old, it attests to them being well made.
kj
A good knife with a back story... who could ask for anything more?
::tu::

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:52 pm
by Mumbleypeg
You are correct, it was Kastor, not Krusius - my mistake. I corrected my post.

Ken

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:42 pm
by RobesonsRme.com
Since "A. W. Wadsworth" most likely never existed, at least as a knife manufacturer, I doubt that "Son" vs "Sons" would make much difference in the age or value of a knife.

Tang stamps wear out and break, requiring the making of a new one. The lack of an "S" in "SONS" might not be anything other than an error on the part of the die-maker.

Charlie

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:13 am
by bocaj
:) thanks for the replies.

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:27 pm
by kootenay joe
The font on your knife is very different from that seen on the Wadsworth Kastor import knives. Could the O.P. knife be more recently made with the maker thinking that Wadsworth was a high value brand to cash in on and made a mistake when ordering the stamping dye ?
Also the blades have been buffed but handles look more like recent bone jigging.
However i am so far from 'expert' everything i say could be wrong.
kj

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 am
by bocaj
Ok. I have spent a lot of time digesting the comments and understand the concepts Here is what additional I offer. The tang stamps on the two blades were measured with a machinist tool. They are different sizes. Therefore both tang stamps would have had to have both “s” missing with exact precision. Plus that third line is perfectly centered without a supposedly missing “s”. I believe the name is as designed

Second the tang stamp is flat not bulging like you expect if was “cold stamped”. If the guy or gal who made the knife and took time to beautifully stamp and jig and polish and hammer the pins to create this knife I cannot believe they would mis-spell the name.

The knife folds smoothly and tightly the bolsters fit close and even . Yes the blades look shiny and buffed but the cutting edge is full and smooth and straight.

I just now will believe the simple and least complicated reason is that the factory just got rushed , did not proof the tang stamp and produced a number of these “odd ball” blades.

Truth may lie in the simplicity of this rationale

Does it make the lnife exotic And expensive ? Probably not. But as mentioned earlier on this thread. It IS a great story along with a nicely made knife

Thanks again. I love this hobby

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 am
by kootenay joe
There are a great many knives which seem 'odd' in some aspect and for which the correct explanation for their origin is not known. Trying to figure out these knives is one of the interesting aspects of knife collecting.
There are people who like to make folding knives and mark them with name or logo of a long defunct manufacturer or importer. You can order a stamping die made to your exact specifications for not much money. Sometimes these knife fakers do not take the time to get the spelling correct. For example i have see an old looking Bowie knife marked "Will & Fink" but the correct old & famous name is "Will & Finck".
It is quite possible that some of the Kastor imports were marked "Wadsworth & Son" and then Kastor decided "Wadsworth & Sons" sounded better. If so then there must be other knives 'out there' marked the same as yours. However the different font of "Wadsworth & Son" i still find suspicious.
This could be one of the mystery knives for which the exact origin will remain a mystery.
kj

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:57 pm
by deo-pa
WADSWORTH “& SON” (singular) stamps must be fairly common as there are a number of them for sale or sold here in the AAPK store. While some of the knives have weak stamps there are others that are clear and can be compared to yours for style and font.

Dennis

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:17 pm
by bocaj
Thanks

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
by MT-Vessel
Different tang stamp fonts for different country of origin? Here’s one from Choslovakia (?). I got it at a flea market for a dollar, if I remember correctly.

Re: Wadsworth and SON not SONS

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:05 am
by kootenay joe
MT-Vessel wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
Different tang stamp fonts for different country of origin? Here’s one from Choslovakia (?). I got it at a flea market for a dollar, if I remember correctly.
Whoa, that one is very odd. If have seen knives marked with "Czechoslovakia" but never with "Choslovakia"
Google search for "Choslovakia" brings up a Bohemian glass vase with this marking: https://www.collectorsweekly.com/storie ... ase-marked
A comment below says "This is an example of Kralik production".
"Kralik" was the name of a glassworks factory in "Bohemia" from about 1815 to WW II.
This shows that "Choslovakia" has been used on other old European manufactured items. Presumably it is an old spelling that was used in some countries for "Czechoslovakia".
Indicates that Adolf Kastor used a variety of manufacturers for his import knives.

Neat knife. Thanks for posting it Mt-Vessel.
kj