Pen Blades on Cattle Knives

[Colonel26]

It’s always interesting to read threads like this and see the different perspectives. Levine says the cattle knife was developed in the 1870s, designed for working on and around livestock. Therefore the blades would have served a useful purpose for the knife’s users at the time. In those days there were no knife collectors. People bought knives as tools to be used, so the buyers of cattle knives would be looking for a knife having blades they found useful. Thus the reason most cattle knives have either a spear or clip master, a spay secondary, and either a sheepfoot, pen, or punch for the other secondary.

As we collectors get farther and farther from the dates when the various patterns originated, the historical circumstances of their origins become lost or secondary. The cattle knife is a good example. It seems for many collectors the cattle knife has become known and identified by its shape alone, with little or no concern for what blades it has.

As patterns evolve to please the tastes of today’s buyers, cutlery makers might indeed put Wharcliffe or various other blades into an equal-end knife, to suit the tastes and uses of current day buyers. That’s how the marketplace works - very few people “doctor” livestock today. But IMHO as one who values history, when altered as such they’re no longer “cattle knives”. JMO

Ken

I’m with you Ken on the wharncliff. I just don’t think it’d be right on a “cattle” knife. Clip/Spear are both useful at the barn or in the shop, so is a punch blade. I’m a sheepsfoot fan, and it’s probably the the blade i use the most. It I think a spey or a pen is necessary. Both can be used for the “surgery” as they share the same general shape, just a difference in amount of belly mainly.

Now I think I need more cattle knives. Fantastic old pattern.

[John Wright]

It’s always interesting to read threads like this and see the different perspectives. Levine says the cattle knife was developed in the 1870s, designed for working on and around livestock. Therefore the blades would have served a useful purpose for the knife’s users at the time. In those days there were no knife collectors. People bought knives as tools to be used, so the buyers of cattle knives would be looking for a knife having blades they found useful. Thus the reason most cattle knives have either a spear or clip master, a spay secondary, and either a sheepfoot, pen, or punch for the other secondary.

As we collectors get farther and farther from the dates when the various patterns originated, the historical circumstances of their origins become lost or secondary. The cattle knife is a good example. It seems for many collectors the cattle knife has become known and identified by its shape alone, with little or no concern for what blades it has.

As patterns evolve to please the tastes of today’s buyers, cutlery makers might indeed put Wharcliffe or various other blades into an equal-end knife, to suit the tastes and uses of current day buyers. That’s how the marketplace works - very few people “doctor” livestock today. But IMHO as one who values history, when altered as such they’re no longer “cattle knives”. JMO

Ken

I’m with you Ken on the wharncliff. I just don’t think it’d be right on a “cattle” knife. Clip/Spear are both useful at the barn or in the shop, so is a punch blade. I’m a sheepsfoot fan, and it’s probably the the blade i use the most. It I think a spey or a pen is necessary. Both can be used for the “surgery” as they share the same general shape, just a difference in amount of belly mainly.

Now I think I need more cattle knives. Fantastic old pattern.

It’s always interesting to read threads like this and see the different perspectives. Levine says the cattle knife was developed in the 1870s, designed for working on and around livestock. Therefore the blades would have served a useful purpose for the knife’s users at the time. In those days there were no knife collectors. People bought knives as tools to be used, so the buyers of cattle knives would be looking for a knife having blades they found useful. Thus the reason most cattle knives have either a spear or clip master, a spay secondary, and either a sheepfoot, pen, or punch for the other secondary.

As we collectors get farther and farther from the dates when the various patterns originated, the historical circumstances of their origins become lost or secondary. The cattle knife is a good example. It seems for many collectors the cattle knife has become known and identified by its shape alone, with little or no concern for what blades it has.

As patterns evolve to please the tastes of today’s buyers, cutlery makers might indeed put Wharcliffe or various other blades into an equal-end knife, to suit the tastes and uses of current day buyers. That’s how the marketplace works - very few people “doctor” livestock today. But IMHO as one who values history, when altered as such they’re no longer “cattle knives”. JMO

Ken

I’m with you Ken on the wharncliff. I just don’t think it’d be right on a “cattle” knife. Clip/Spear are both useful at the barn or in the shop, so is a punch blade. I’m a sheepsfoot fan, and it’s probably the the blade i use the most. It I think a spey or a pen is necessary. Both can be used for the “surgery” as they share the same general shape, just a difference in amount of belly mainly.

Now I think I need more cattle knives. Fantastic old pattern.

Ok, that answers something else I was wondering. Why did some stockman knives have a pen blade instead of a spay blade? After all, if they were used for the intended purpose, I just assumed the spay would be better. Some stockman knives i have seen have a clip, sheepsfoot, and pen blade. And if they were used for the intended purpose on a cow, I was thinking that a spay blade would be better. But if they both do the same job just as well, I see now why the pen blade was put on some of them. And no doubt back then there would have been a lot of discussions which served the purpose better. If only my knives could talk and tell their tales and what they have seen!

[Colonel26]

It’s always interesting to read threads like this and see the different perspectives. Levine says the cattle knife was developed in the 1870s, designed for working on and around livestock. Therefore the blades would have served a useful purpose for the knife’s users at the time. In those days there were no knife collectors. People bought knives as tools to be used, so the buyers of cattle knives would be looking for a knife having blades they found useful. Thus the reason most cattle knives have either a spear or clip master, a spay secondary, and either a sheepfoot, pen, or punch for the other secondary.

As we collectors get farther and farther from the dates when the various patterns originated, the historical circumstances of their origins become lost or secondary. The cattle knife is a good example. It seems for many collectors the cattle knife has become known and identified by its shape alone, with little or no concern for what blades it has.

As patterns evolve to please the tastes of today’s buyers, cutlery makers might indeed put Wharcliffe or various other blades into an equal-end knife, to suit the tastes and uses of current day buyers. That’s how the marketplace works - very few people “doctor” livestock today. But IMHO as one who values history, when altered as such they’re no longer “cattle knives”. JMO

Ken

I’m with you Ken on the wharncliff. I just don’t think it’d be right on a “cattle” knife. Clip/Spear are both useful at the barn or in the shop, so is a punch blade. I’m a sheepsfoot fan, and it’s probably the the blade i use the most. It I think a spey or a pen is necessary. Both can be used for the “surgery” as they share the same general shape, just a difference in amount of belly mainly.

Now I think I need more cattle knives. Fantastic old pattern.

It’s always interesting to read threads like this and see the different perspectives. Levine says the cattle knife was developed in the 1870s, designed for working on and around livestock. Therefore the blades would have served a useful purpose for the knife’s users at the time. In those days there were no knife collectors. People bought knives as tools to be used, so the buyers of cattle knives would be looking for a knife having blades they found useful. Thus the reason most cattle knives have either a spear or clip master, a spay secondary, and either a sheepfoot, pen, or punch for the other secondary.

As we collectors get farther and farther from the dates when the various patterns originated, the historical circumstances of their origins become lost or secondary. The cattle knife is a good example. It seems for many collectors the cattle knife has become known and identified by its shape alone, with little or no concern for what blades it has.

As patterns evolve to please the tastes of today’s buyers, cutlery makers might indeed put Wharcliffe or various other blades into an equal-end knife, to suit the tastes and uses of current day buyers. That’s how the marketplace works - very few people “doctor” livestock today. But IMHO as one who values history, when altered as such they’re no longer “cattle knives”. JMO

Ken

I’m with you Ken on the wharncliff. I just don’t think it’d be right on a “cattle” knife. Clip/Spear are both useful at the barn or in the shop, so is a punch blade. I’m a sheepsfoot fan, and it’s probably the the blade i use the most. It I think a spey or a pen is necessary. Both can be used for the “surgery” as they share the same general shape, just a difference in amount of belly mainly.

Now I think I need more cattle knives. Fantastic old pattern.

Ok, that answers something else I was wondering. Why did some stockman knives have a pen blade instead of a spay blade? After all, if they were used for the intended purpose, I just assumed the spay would be better. Some stockman knives i have seen have a clip, sheepsfoot, and pen blade. And if they were used for the intended purpose on a cow, I was thinking that a spay blade would be better. But if they both do the same job just as well, I see now why the pen blade was put on some of them. And no doubt back then there would have been a lot of discussions which served the purpose better. If only my knives could talk and tell their tales and what they have seen!

A spey lets you make a much more precise cut. But a pen will definitely work.

[Tsar Bomba]

If only my knives could talk and tell their tales and what they have seen!

Would we really want to hear every knife's story?

[royal0014]

If only my knives could talk and tell their tales and what they have seen!

Would we really want to hear every knife's story?

And just to add fuel to the fire ....
is it spey or is it spay ?? ??

[Colonel26]

If only my knives could talk and tell their tales and what they have seen!

Would we really want to hear every knife's story?

Makes me want a big ol plate of rooster fries!

Chris I’ve always seen spey. I don’t know which is right. But I have always wondered why the teen spey was used for this particular blade when it ain’t exactly speying we use it for.....

[KnifeSlinger#81]

And just to add fuel to the fire ....
is it spey or is it spay ?? ??

I have always spelled it spey, and so does the schrade cut catalogs so that's good enough for me.

[Mumbleypeg]

I’ve always spelled it spey. I’ve seen it spelled both ways. For whatever reason, when I type spey, the spell check feature (with which I have a love/hate relationship ) tries to change it to spay.

The dictionary says the word “spay” originates from the Greek word spathe which means “broad blade”. I don’t find “spey” in the dictionary, which shows how little I know.

On a Trapper pattern the long blade with the same shape cutting edge, also usually called a spey blade, was typically used for skinning animals without penetrating the “cavity”. On a stockman or cattle knife it was used for castration. In both cases the blade is designed for precise slicing without puncturing or deep penetration. I suppose other blades like a pen can be adapted to the same purpose, but a pen is more pointed and therefore more likely to puncture or unintentionally cut or nick where not wanted. Stabbing the critter you’re working on is not considered good form!

And I agree with Wade. Spay is the term used for neutering female animals, so how it came to be applied to a blade named for castrations is confusing.

Ken

[Henry Hide]

I’ve always spelled it spey. I’ve seen it spelled both ways. For whatever reason, when I type spey, the spell check feature (with which I have a love/hate relationship ) tries to change it to spay.

The dictionary says the word “spay” originates from the Greek word spathe which means “broad blade”. I don’t find “spey” in the dictionary, which shows how little I know.

On a Trapper pattern the long blade with the same shape cutting edge, also usually called a spey blade, was typically used for skinning animals without penetrating the “cavity”. On a stockman or cattle knife it was used for castration. In both cases the blade is designed for precise slicing without puncturing or deep penetration. I suppose other blades like a pen can be adapted to the same purpose, but a pen is more pointed and therefore more likely to puncture or unintentionally cut or nick where not wanted. Stabbing the critter you’re working on is not considered good form!

And I agree with Wade. Spay is the term used for neutering female animals, so how it came to be applied to a blade named for castrations is confusing.

Ken

I don't know which way is correct either, and I have seen it spelled both ways. From now on, I think I will just refer to it as the "For Flesh Only" blade.

[Henry Hide]

I’ve always spelled it spey. I’ve seen it spelled both ways. For whatever reason, when I type spey, the spell check feature (with which I have a love/hate relationship ) tries to change it to spay.

The dictionary says the word “spay” originates from the Greek word spathe which means “broad blade”. I don’t find “spey” in the dictionary, which shows how little I know.

On a Trapper pattern the long blade with the same shape cutting edge, also usually called a spey blade, was typically used for skinning animals without penetrating the “cavity”. On a stockman or cattle knife it was used for castration. In both cases the blade is designed for precise slicing without puncturing or deep penetration. I suppose other blades like a pen can be adapted to the same purpose, but a pen is more pointed and therefore more likely to puncture or unintentionally cut or nick where not wanted. Stabbing the critter you’re working on is not considered good form!

And I agree with Wade. Spay is the term used for neutering female animals, so how it came to be applied to a blade named for castrations is confusing.

Ken

I don't know which way is correct either, and I have seen it spelled both ways. From now on, I think I will just refer to it as the "For Flesh Only" blade.