What is the origin

[richard]

this imperial serpentine pen is not a good whittler. blades are to thin

[LongBlade]

I agree - half whittler is an anomaly and makes no sense - Funny thing is I’m not at all a Case collector - but I did find one on a local hunt long ago that I took home for a combination of reasons - It’s the now famous 6208 half whittler ..

I won’t even attempt the whittler definition - that’s been discussed here so many times and almost becomes opinion based on blades etc (though it will have a single blade on one end and two blades on other end) but do think it should have 2 springs with or without a wedge - of course the true split spring whittler is a rarity though there was one posted here on AAPK once... the whittler definition became somewhat clouded by different manufacturers terminology based on their patterns called a whittler - starting to sound like a half whittler .....

[Mumbleypeg]

I won’t even attempt the whittler definition - that’s been discussed here so many times and almost becomes opinion based on blades etc (though it will have a single blade on one end and two blades on other end) but do think it should have 2 springs with or without a wedge - of course the true split spring whittler is a rarity though there was one posted here on AAPK once... the whittler definition became somewhat clouded by different manufacturers terminology based on their patterns called a whittler - starting to sound like a half whittler .....

For those who missed it, if you're bored this evening here's some entertainment - probably better than anything on television! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44501&hilit=Whittler

Ken

[richard]

nice little case lee, if it had both blades and one end would it be a peanut?

[kootenay joe]

"if it had both blades and one end would it be a peanut?"
No.
kj

[richard]

this whittler just came in the mail

[tongueriver]

For what it's worth, I think that a half pants, a half scissors and a half pliers would be pretty useless.

[richard]

half pints of beer are useless, hardly wets your lips.

[knifeaholic]

Regardless of what BRL and others might say, Case cannot be blamed for the term "half whittler". Case catalogs up until the late 1960's had no names at all for any pocket knife pattern. Just the pattern numbers.

The first use of the term "half whittler" is in the early knife collecting price guides circa 1968-1972. Authors Bob Mayes and Dewey Ferguson used the term.

Case's first catalog to show any pattern names at all was catalog #70, issued in 1969. In this catalog, Case was not trying to assign names to any pattern, they showed names for some patterns that reflected what collectors were already calling the pattern. A subtle but important difference.

HOWEVER, there was no use of the "half whittler" name for the 6208 or for any other Case pattern in this catalog or in subsequent Case catalogs. While the term "half whittler" was in common use by collectors, Case never used the term.

Looking at Case catalogs through the early 80's reveals that the name "half whittler" never appears. The only Case pattern that would be considered a "half whittler in those years was the 6208, which was discontinued in 1985.

Yes, in recent Case catalogs (2000 to present day), Case does assign the name "half whittler" to the (reintroduced) 6208, but Case in no way originated the name.

[LongBlade]

Thanks for putting the record straight on half whittler Steve ... and noting the 1st use of the term by Mayes and Ferguson... Well now I guess I just have a Case 6208 pen knife - I actually do like it but funny thing is before this thread I never even considered it a half whittler but never use the term anyway ... Terminology for knives can be rather confusing at times and often it depends upon what one may read or note from catalogs (but more 20th century catalogs - obviously not Case catalogs) - Old catalogs from the 1800-early 1900s rarely had pattern names at least based on the few I have seen - also many had pattern #s - sometimes usually just noting number of blades and I think more of a rarity to note a general pattern category....

[kootenay joe]

Quote: "nice little case lee, if it had both blades and one end would it be a peanut?"
To explain, the Case 'half whittler' is really a swell center serpentine pen knife.
A 'peanut' is also "serpentine" but the style & placement of the curves (= serpentine, curvy like a snake) is different.
A Peanut is a serpentine jack, about 2 3/4' with 1 or 2 blade(s) at the small end. A Dog Leg jack has the same serpentine shape but is larger, 3 3/8" or larger. There is also a 3" size, a small Dog Leg is my name for this size.
Does this help ? Looking at pictures is better.
kj

[Dinadan]

of the term "half-whittler"? I was all set to go on a rant here, but decided to be nice.

You sure kicked off an interesting discussion, Cal. I have wondered about the half-whittler term a few times but since I have no information to actually answer you question I did not comment in the early stages of the thread. Thank you Steve for the information that you posted.

I can see why a company that makes a three blade, two spring whittler might choose to use the term for the same knife with only two blades and one spring. It only has half the springs. But two-thirds-whittler would be just as accurate, since it still has two of three blades. And best of all would be three-fifths-whittler. After all, if the real whittler has a total of five springs and blades, and one blade and one spring are left off, that leaves three-fifths.

There does seem to be a feeling by some that when a pattern is altered then it is gone. Think of a stockman - has anyone ever left off one blade of a stockman and called the knife a half-stockman?

I kind of agree with the idea that the pattern is the pattern, and when it is altered then it is gone. That might be because of Plato and his ideas about the immutable forms - I am a Platonist, at least to a degree.

[1967redrider]

I guess if you cut a Camillus 72 in half it would be a half whittler.

I'm going to get in trouble for that one.

[LongBlade]

There does seem to be a feeling by some that when a pattern is altered then it is gone. Think of a stockman - has anyone ever left off one blade of a stockman and called the knife a half-stockman?

You know Mel I originally noted the same about a blade missing on a stockman and calling it a half-stockman - but I deleted it - it would be a serpentine pen anyway. Guess we were thinking along the same lines

I agree that when a pattern is altered it is something else — but terminology for knife patterns can be very confusing as there is not a “bible” of such that everybody refers to for the definitive answer - though some may use Levine’s guide to me that is based alot on his opinion and view - and as noted I also think there are clear mistakes and alot of conjecture... it is an interesting topic but sometimes I think we make more out of it than necessary... one thing I think most agree on are the larger family classifications such as Jack vs Pen vs Fixed Blade etc... the issues become more apparent for the names of sub-classification patterns under the larger umbrellas... just my opinion and we all have one as they say

[Dinadan]

I agree that when a pattern is altered it is something else — but terminology for knife patterns can be very confusing as there is not a “bible” of such that everybody refers to for the definitive answer - though some may use Levine’s guide to me that is based alot on his opinion and view - and as noted I also think there are clear mistakes and alot of conjecture... it is an interesting topic but sometimes I think we make more out of it than necessary... one thing I think most agree on are the larger family classifications such as Jack vs Pen vs Fixed Blade etc... the issues become more apparent for the names of sub-classification patterns under the larger umbrellas... just my opinion and we all have one as they say

Lee - I think the lack clarity when it comes to a lot of things about knives leads to some of the most interesting discussions. I thoroughly enjoy the threads where we try to define whittler, for example. Maybe I will go over to that thread and restart it next! Things like defining whittler, or differentiating sheepsfoot versus wharncliffe versus lambsfoot blades are fun even if there is no real answer. And there are always new members coming onto the forum, so there will always be someone to restart the discussion.

[LongBlade]

I see your point Mel - they can be interesting discussions and fun to hear the opinions as long as one realizes that we will not arrive at definitive definitions for the world of knives (but maybe I am wrong )... the discussions on AAPK are always civil and respectful which is a nice aspect of this forum ....

PS - I forgot to add the difference between wharncliffe vs sheep foot vs lamb foot is actually different and there is an answer - in the Lamb Foot thread Dimitri posted a very good diagram that really shows the difference between those blades as they were originally designed ... in that case the blades made by some manufacturers clouded the difference during the 1900s ....

[kootenay joe]

A Premium Stockman ( ~ 4") with only the master blade or with the secondary beside it make for a One Blade and Two Blade Serpentine Premium Jack.
kj

[knifeaholic]

If you think that the term "half whittler" is annoying...(and I agree it IS annoying)...then how about the term "half hawkbill"? Even more annoying when shortened to "half hawk".

It is an annoying term from early knife collecting that (thankfully) never got any traction so it seems to have died out.

What does it refer to? What BRL would call a "regular" jack or sometimes the "curved jack" (think loom fixer) pattern.

Evidently based on the visual cue that a regular jack (like a Case 31 or 99) or a curved jack (Case 17) is about "half" as wide as the typical "hawkbill" (like the Case 011) in terms of the handle shape.

[LongBlade]

A half hawk I think I had heard it once but like half whittler stuck it in a part of my brain to be forgotten ... like a half canoe which is another I heard once ...

The problem in my opinion is that when someone is new to knives and hears these terms the continued use of them propagates... as an example and I’ll be honest - when I first started I didn’t know better when I heard half whittler until I read from those who know better there is no such creature...

[Reverand]

I have a single-blade “quarter-whittler” if anyone is interested!

[btrwtr]

Please lest not forget the half congress.

I try to keep half knives out of my vocabulary and collection.

[jerryd6818]

Steve, "Half-Hawk" is still being used in some quarters in reference to a 'Loom Fixer'.

[tongueriver]

And what is half of one of these?

[orvet]

Not sure what you would call that...
But if you put wheels under it, it would be a wheel-burro.

[tongueriver]

Not sure what you would call that...
But if you put wheels under it, it would be a wheel-burro.

lol. I was thinking of an adjective, Dale.