All About Pocket Knives

Here is a vintage Sheffield knife in the very desirable lock back whittler pattern. All 3 blades are marked: "XLALL/Parkin &/Marshall/Sheffield". LG4 gives the dates as 1770-1910's for this marking.
Action on all blades is 'perfect' and there is no play and the blade lock is 100% solid yet easy to release by depressing the spring end. The shield has the name "Thos. Proctor".
This knife has been carefully buffed.
Most serious collectors will not buy a knife that has been buffed. Here we have a vintage knife with a brand that LG4 says is "H"ighly collectible and in a pattern that is very highly collectible.
Does the buffing mean that you still would not collect this knife ?
kj

Condition is everything usually with knives like this. Everything else on it looks great. I would "discount" my value on it based on the fact that it has been likely used and buffed. But if the price was right, I'd buy it in a minute.

Gorgeous knife,probably way above my pay grade,wouldn't mind having it in my pile, but then I ain't a serious collector, I'd put it in my watch pocket tote it to Sunday school and hope I didn't drop it while showing it off.

kootenay joe wrote: Most serious collectors will not buy a knife that has been buffed.

Does the buffing mean that you still would not collect this knife ?
kj

I prefer un-buffed but my standards are somewhat flexible. I have a few in my collection that have been buffed to one extent or another. It depends on how badly I want it (and can I afford it?). Does it fill a hole in my collection? If so I might buy it and hope a better example comes along later. Or I might figure I'll never get another chance so at least get the buffed one.

Ken

Quote Ken: "I might buy it and hope a better example comes along later"
My thought was more that i might not see a vintage LB whittler again. Also in pictures provided i could only see the meeting of the secondary springs for about half their length and i thought Wow a split backspring whittler And a lockback, Wow & Wow ! But it was the buffing that had hidden the meeting of the springs. They certainly are tight to each other, all done with hand tools and a lot of experience.
Comments to this point indicate that if a knife is both desirable and hard to find, having been buffed does not kill the deal. A few more responses are needed to bear this out.
kj

I don't see how one could come along that looks any better Roland! I would be happy to have it in my accumulation of knives. You did good, my opinion.

I Take a Perspective View On The deal , Giving The Piece Still Has the Slim Secondary Blades Intact , ( Wonderfull ), Giving The Pearl POP's , Giving Seller may have sold it as a Buffed Piece ? Giving Its Rarity and Age . I d say you Hit a Home Run Kj .. _ K.C.

Roland, Did you buff the blades? Or the handles? Or both?
I normally do not touch the blades but will sometimes buff the handles and bolsters to get the micro scratches out.
Personally I don’t mind a knife being brought back to life and made to look new again, so long as the job was done right.
I think it’s worth more in great condition.
However, I have had a different reaction from collectors that have purchased these knives from the Keen Kutter collection that I purchased and am selling. On my eBay site I have told the bidders that I have superficially cleaned the knives and left the blades untouched, except for using Simichrome on them.
Surprisingly I have heard back from numerous buyers thanking me for leaving the blades alone. I have never gotten so many emails and messages from buyers before. So there are people out there who want to do the blade work themselves on an old knife, or they like the antique look. It has changed my opinion on whether it’s smart to buff or not.
I’m interested in hearing what others think about this.
Mark

Beautiful knife Roland! I would jump on that one in a heartbeat. Only the second lock back I've ever seen. I got a Vom Cleff stag lockback awhile back that uses the manicure blade as a lock release.

Let's see a picture of the lock and the springs looking straight down.

"Let's see a picture of the lock and the springs looking straight down."
O.P. knife or Vom Cleff ?
This knife is just as i received it. I have done no cleaning of any sort. The blades look close to full and i cannot see any sign of old rust pits. I think the buffing was on the 'lighter' side as the blade markings (all 3 blades) are perfectly clear, easy to read, and the name on the shield is easy to read. The nail nick on one of the secondaries is a little shallow but functional if you open the other secondary first. No half stops (no surprise)
I would prefer to have had this knife before it was buffed. Blades might have been tarnished almost black but there was no deep rust.
The 2 secondary springs are shiny and look buffed as the line between them is faint, although construction is perfectly flush and tight.
The tangs also look a bit shiny. Can a buffer reach all of the exposed tang so that zero evidence of old 'dirt/grime' remains ?
kj

OP knife

Beautiful knife. The buffing on this one wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I did a little researching.

Thos.Proctor and Son Ltd
Wholesale
Gateshead, Tyne and Wear

Thomas Proctor & Son Ltd. was established in 1798 as an ironmongers and merchants. It was set up to service the rapidly expanding trade and industry which was developing on the banks of the River Tyne

Picture requested will appear after rain stops.
Very interesting "Thomas Proctor" history and he was a supplier of steel. But both Thomas and Proctor are reasonably common British names so we cannot know if it is Proctor the Iron Monger. It would make a GREAT ebay provenance story !
kj

My opinion - I just don't like buffed knives - you are rounding edges, removing metal and making an old beauty shine and this is just my opinion but you are taking away some historical connection - No I would not buy it... Given that in the past I have bought gently cleaned but not buffed knives in special circumstances or my collection would be very small - I just wish all sellers left it to new owners but that is not possible as the knife may have passed through many hands with different opinions on all.... I certainly believe in removing active rust if it is there -but this can be done fairly well without removing patina by a drop of oil on the rust spot and letting it sit - and subsequently using X-Fine 0000 steel wool - my experience is that it doesn't remove patina but does pretty well on active rust (not black spider stains)... One other pet peeve of mine is seeing shiny bolsters on a knife with nice age-old patina on the blades with a handle that shows age as well - the analogy of buffing your bolsters shiny while the rest remains "age-old" is like putting fancy modern free-spinning hub caps on a 1920 Model A Ford ... Just my 2 cents and likes - and finally "is there a right answer?" - Everyone has their own opinions and there are no "knife police" to arrest you pending your decision ...

THAT knife buffed? I 100% buy it!

That being said, if I walked up to a table and there are two knives side by side in a common pattern and handle material one has been buffed and the other hasn’t? I buy the one that hasn’t been buffed.

I am not worried about buffing my lock back WHITTLER with stag handles.

Jackknifeben, I think someone buffed that one on the concrete.

'ben' is that LB an old Henckels ?
kj

Roland given the rarity of your knife passing it up in hopes of finding a better or uncleaned example would likely be fruitless. Knice!

Thanks to all who posted. I am surprised by the enthusiasm shown for this knife. I now should reassess my evaluation of worth.
I have been selling off my knives for at least 2 years now so i am getting down to some of the ones harder to let go of. My children have made it clear they don't want to have to deal with 'a bunch of old knives'. It makes more sense for me to sell them while i still can. This brings the problem of pricing. For so many knives there is no established value, unlike for example, Case knives where values are known and accepted. But for vintage knives rarely seen how does one establish a fair price ? The only way i can think of is to ask other experienced collectors what the knife might be worth to them. If anyone wants to give a ballpark price range for this knife, it will be appreciated.
kj

Thank you Wayne. That was my thinking when i bought it. Plus with "Proctor" being on the shield and my name being "Procter", i had to have it.
kj

"Let's see a picture of the lock and the springs looking straight down."
Looking at the backspring you can see the 2 springs for the secondaries and the wide spring for the master blade. Looking into the well the inside surface shows a different spring arrangement. The 2 springs seem to run the length of the frame, no single wide spring for the master. It is hard to be certain but the 2 springs as seen from inside do not move when i depress the end of the wide spring, so wide spring must be mounted over the 2 springs with a spacer at the blade end to give room for spring to move downward about 2-3 mm. to release the blade.
Is this the usual LB whittler construction ? I had not examined springs from inside before.
I note the inside of liners and springs are clean and mostly shiny but these were not buffed.
Please comment on construction.
thank you, kj

All three blades are stamped A.L.BABCOCK HARDWARE CO. This was a very fine knife at one time.

Goins shows a "Babcock & Stowell, Binghampton, N.Y." 1900-1930. Maybe yours is an older Babcock Hardware marking ?
The stag looks similar to that seen on some old Henckels knives, but with no country name your knife is probably not an import.
kj