J.Primble/Belknap/Germany 5373

[btrwtr]

The blade is legitimate but I doubt the knife is.

I believe this is a blade from a Primble 3 blade stockman pattern knife. The frame would be normal for a multi-blade knife but it is far from normal for a single blade jack knife. How many small, serpentine, single blade jacks have you seen? Not saying they aren't out there but the pattern would be quite unusual.

Maybe this knife had a broken back spring that made that 2 secondary blades useless and the knife was reduced to a single blade. Maybe that knife was cobbled from leftover factory parts.

Here is a picture of a Primble 5373 stockman. Looks like the same type blade as the OP knife to me.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Wayne, I certainly take your thoughts in High Regards Sir. But its not really that unusual coming from Germany. Yes I certainly agree that the pattern is Scarce for a USA maker but not for German, IMHO. I have owned a few similar to this knife in my past. I do find it Unusual there is no blade etch either on this piece and I notice the center pin is not spun,,,I am not sure if this leads us anywhere,,,Just my observations!! It very well could be a put together knife since the center pin is not spun?? One would have to look on the inside liners also to see if any extra holes exist and if the liners match the pins in retrospect of the same steel?? The handles sure look like 50's period horn to me
Kind Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, One more thing to add to this Wonderful thread!!! You honestly just never know what you may come across in searching for oddities with Primble knives. I let this particular piece get away from me several years ago but I kept the pics because it was a Neat/Unusual piece too me.

A.F Shapleigh stamping on master w/ D-E Prussia on back. Secondary blade has John Primble I.S.W. Also notice the "Pebble stag" handles that we normally see on German made pocket knives. I take note there is a salesman sample# on this knife and indeed 2 Different hardware stampings,,,I feel this was done on purpose BUT to this day I have NEVER seen another 2 different hardware stampings on the same knife. Pretty wild huh

Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Very interesting points are being made in analyzing this German made knife. I am away from home at present but when back in a few days time i will look at liners to see if there are unused pin holes, etc. I can say that this 'Primble' 5375 is a beautifully made knife, not a 'hack job' at all. It is the work of a skilled cutler.
Wayne thanks for finding the catalog image of the Primble 5375, and thank you Mark as well. I appreciate you sharing your 'knifer' knowledge.
kj

[ratlesnake75]

Its certainly my Pleasure!! I adore your knife and cant wait for you to observe it more closely. The reason why I am bringing up the "Center pin being spun" is I just dont know if its normal or not,,,,FOR GERMANY made knives. I havent studied GERMANY made knives like I have US made ones so this is a learning experience for me also.
Kind Regards,
mark

[btrwtr]

My initial statement "The first thing that strikes me as peculiar about this knife is that it is a single blade jack in a very unusual frame for a single blade jack knife. Other than Barlows, boy's knives, toothpicks and folding hunters not many companies made other pattern single blade jacks so I always look closely at such knives." is one that I believe in. Certainly there are additional common single blade jack patterns but this smaller serpentine frame is not one of them regardless of country of manufacture. The frame of this knife is one that I would associate with a multi blade knife. Many times I have seen single blade jacks in uncommon frames that I was certain had been altered for one reason or another.

The OP knife does appear to be very well put together and a nice knife. It was assembled by a person of some skill. Setting pins in grooved bolsters is more challenging than setting them in flat or rounded bolsters.

The handles look to be synthetic/plastic to me but I am sure KJ can tell us what they are.

Here is a catalog cut of a Primble designated as 5373S. Different configuration but still a 3 3/8" serpentine stockman. I believe this is an older knife than the OP or previous book cut I posted.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Just to clear things a bit, I never stated that I thought the OP knife was a genuine 1950's German import John Primble by Belknap Hardware.

I have no opinion as to its authenticity.

I did state the possibility of it being fake, as I have had a fake "Primble" purporting to be such a mid-50's knife.

Charlie Noyes

[ratlesnake75]

Sorry Charlie your right bro. My mistake
Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Shield pin is visible on inside of liner. The 4 handle pins are all smaller than the holes in the liners. Actually the pins are not small, it's the holes that are too large so there is a gap all around the pin end. I have never seen this before. There are no other holes. Despite the gaps around the handle pins both handles are solidly affixed to the liners.
Handles: the look like shiny black plastic but with a loupe the edge shows it to be made of irregular layers like one might see with horn. But i have never seen pure black shiny horn so i am unsure as to which this is.
Could the over sized holes be from over drilling the original handle pins to change the handle pieces ?
kj

[btrwtr]

Shield pin is visible on inside of liner. The 4 handle pins are all smaller than the holes in the liners. Actually the pins are not small, it's the holes that are too large so there is a gap all around the pin end. I have never seen this before. There are no other holes. Despite the gaps around the handle pins both handles are solidly affixed to the liners.
Handles: the look like shiny black plastic but with a loupe the edge shows it to be made of irregular layers like one might see with horn. But i have never seen pure black shiny horn so i am unsure as to which this is.
Could the over sized holes be from over drilling the original handle pins to change the handle pieces ?
kj

kj I am unsure what to make of the oversize pin holes. Normally disassembling a knife wouldn't require drilling out the handle pins. The pins look to protrude from the handle material and also look to be peened which is odd for smooth handle material. Normally I think they would be peened and ground flush with the handles. Are the handle end pins actually flush?

I still think your knife has an original Primble Germany blade but am unsure of what to make of the rest of the knife. I don't believe the frame was intended to house a single clip blade. Best guess is the knife is not a factory finished stock product but was assembled by someone to use available parts. At any rate it is still a nice looking knife and would be a great potential user.

[kootenay joe]

Thanks for your input here Wayne. It is always much appreciated.
Yes the handle pins are flush with the liners.
There are many German knives that were assembled from left over parts during recent times, mainly 1980's from what i have read. Krusius is perhaps the best known. Many of the Krusius branded knives you see on ebay were not made in the Krusius factory.
This Primble 5373 is collectible to those who collect German knives assembled after factory closed. There are enough of these knives out there to get a sizable collection which could then be the reference for non factory assembled German knives.
But i also consider well done fakes as both collectible and educational. (if there is such a word ?)
kj

[kootenay joe]

Here is a picture showing gap around handle pin.
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

I think handle pin holes are beveled or counter-sunk, on the inside of the liners so that when peened down flat, they have a purchase. And they have to be flat and flush with the liner's inside surface so they do not interfere with the blade's motion.

You can see that bevel in KJ's photo above.

If the pin hole was drilled straight through and perfectly cylindrical, the pin would have to have a domed head on it inside the liner to produce purchase.

If the OP knife has been rehandled, whoever did it did a poor job of peening down the pin on the inside of the liner. They did not fill the bevel with peened pin material.

Hope that's as clear as I meant it to be.

Roland, take a similar photo of a knife you know to be righteous.

Charlie Noyes

[kootenay joe]

"Hope that's as clear as I meant it to be". Yes, quite clear.

"take a similar photo of a knife you know to be righteous". O.K., coming up.

The picture also shows the 'layering' ? of the handle material seen in the handle edge along liner.
Does this look like horn or plastic to you ?
kj

[kootenay joe]

I just found a 2 5/8" pen knife marked: "J.Primble/Belknap/Germany" on master tang, no other markings. Imitation tortoise handles. I was able to get a pic of inside surface of a handle pin. This one has no gap between end of pin & surrounding liner.
Does this knife look to be an authentic Primble Germany knife ? or one made later on from parts ? Does this knife 'shed any light' on my single blade Stockman Jack ?
kj

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Roland, What you are seeing on the "Layers" on top of the 1-blade knife is the actual machining marks that are done during the hafting process of the handles,,sometimes mint knives show them better than others,,,depending upon how well polished the knife went through on the "fit & finish" process. Also, These machining marks wear down smooth after some carry or use,,so it blends in very well. Basically its just part of the "Fit & finish" process.

The only way I know to tell the difference between real horn and fake is by the HOT PIN test in a very inconspicuous spot and done very VERY quickly. I have done this MANY times to tell if its genuine bone/plastic/horn handles.

As per the rivot pin,,,looks very normal to me for GERMAN product,,,,sometimes they look better than others. Also important is that the "Shield" pin is shown on the inside of knife w/ no additional holes around it either,,,and it lines up like it suppose too vs the outside of the knife. So far I just dont see anything at all that jumps out at me for a Re handle job. Most re handle jobs show additional holes through the liners or the shield pins wont line up on the inside of knife,,,, I have seen several instances after a rehandle job,, they have glued the shield back into the handles instead of actually using rivots. At least this is what I have seen through my experience. I am sure there are competent restorations done on $500+ knives,,,but noone is going to spend that amount of time and expertise on a Primble Germany knife, IMHO.
Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Mark esp. for explaining what to me looked like 'layering' is actually saw marks. As for the 5373, the handle pins and shield pin all line up with liner holes and there are no other holes in liners.
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

Roland, the handle pins inside the knife on the 5373 should look like those in the tortoise or tortoise celluloid handled knife.

They don't.

That's a red flag for me.

Charlie

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Charlie. The weight of opinion supports your 'red flag'. It is unlikely that Primble ever sold a single blade 5373.
kj