All About Pocket Knives

What does it take to qualify as a cattle knife? I have been looking at them lately and they seem to come in quite a variety.
Some that are called "cattle knives" by their makers appear to be just equal end jacks to me.

Ken, my understanding is that an equal end pattern made with three or four blades (similar blade combinations to the Stockman pattern) make it a Cattle Knife. If it measures 3" to 3-3/8" it becomes a Junior Cattle Knife (my current pocketknife fascination). If the equal end pattern has two blades (either end) it is an Equal End Jack Knife. OH

Two 3-3/8" Junior Cattle Knives I have bought in the last three weeks; HSB (Camillus 75 frame) and a real Camillus 75. OH

Old Hunter wrote:Ken, my understanding is that an equal end pattern made with three or four blades (similar blade combinations to the Stockman pattern) make it a Cattle Knife. If it measures 3" to 3-3/8" it becomes a Junior Cattle Knife (my current pocketknife fascination). If the equal end pattern has two blades (either end) it is an Equal End Jack Knife. OH

I think that sums it up.

Kinda what I thought. Thanks.

Thanks for asking that question. I've been wondering the same thing but was just too lazy to ask. Looks like same blade compliment as a stockman but the third blade is "anything other than" a spey blade. Would you say that is a true statement? I think I saw someone say that.

jerryd6818 wrote:Thanks for asking that question. I've been wondering the same thing but was just too lazy to ask. Looks like same blade compliment as a stockman but the third blade is "anything other than" a spey blade. Would you say that is a true statement? I think I saw someone say that.

I would say there's more to it than that. Cattle knives usually have a spey, but a pen is probably about as common. More so on jr's. Sometimes the 3rd blade is a punch, it can also be a punch as a 4th blade with various combinations of spey, pen, or sheepsfoot. The master can also be a spear. Really they have pretty much the same combinations as a stockman except the spear. A spear would be uncommon for a regular serpentine stockman, but I may have seen it before. Not sure.

Mr. Levine says "As the name suggests, the cattle knife was designed for work on and around livestock.........The master blade of a cattle knife is most often a spear blade, although many, including most Case cattle knives, have clip master blades. A few have sheepfoot master blades. The second blade is usually a spey, while the third can be a sheepfoot, a pen, or a punch."

(The italics are mine to emphasize the spey blade being a usual component.)

Although this cattleman is currently "all hat, no cattle", as someone who has owned and worked cattle for years, I can't imagine a cattle knife without a spey blade. Even though the last time I used a pocket knife to "doctor" a critter was probably sometime in the 70s.

Ken

Old Hunter wrote:Ken, my understanding is that an equal end pattern made with three or four blades (similar blade combinations to the Stockman pattern) make it a Cattle Knife. If it measures 3" to 3-3/8" it becomes a Junior Cattle Knife (my current pocketknife fascination). If the equal end pattern has two blades (either end) it is an Equal End Jack Knife. OH

So it's the "equal end frame" with usually three or sometimes four blades that makes it a cattle knife?

jerryd6818 wrote:

Old Hunter wrote:Ken, my understanding is that an equal end pattern made with three or four blades (similar blade combinations to the Stockman pattern) make it a Cattle Knife. If it measures 3" to 3-3/8" it becomes a Junior Cattle Knife (my current pocketknife fascination). If the equal end pattern has two blades (either end) it is an Equal End Jack Knife. OH

So it's the "equal end frame" with usually three or sometimes four blades that makes it a cattle knife?

Without the correct combination of blades, it's simply an equal-end jack. Levinevsays the cattle knife has "the same round-ended equal-end shape as the equal-end jack. At least 90% of cattle knives are standard equal-ends but a few have been made in other shapes." After listing those few shapes making up the 10%, he then goes into the description of the cattle knife's blades, which I quoted above.

So I interpret this to mean it has the equal-end shape, AND the right blades. Like OH says, similar to the stockman. The blades are what differentiates the cattle knife from an equal-end jack. That's the way I read it anyway.

Ken

Here's one.

A Challenge with a clip main blade.

Let me try this one more time. Equal end (rounded bolsters) with most likely a spear main but it could be a clip blade. Sheepfoot. paired with the main blade. Pen blade or punch blade by it's self at the bottom end. Please don't throw anymore shirt in the fan, I'm covered with it already.

All of the above observations are accurate in some measure. To fine-tune it, in case anyone missed it, a cattle knife CANNOT have a serpentine frame. Most stockman knives are also equal end, but they always have a serpentine frame. In addition, there were two major standard sizes, and all other sizes are rare and anomalous. Those two sizes are 3 3/8 (junior) and 3 5/8 (regular). I have a cattle knife by IXL Wostenholm that is also a "true" whittler, with the springs wedged. Speaking of which, why do people call them back springs? What other kinds of springs can a pocket knife have? Front springs? Side springs?

The 2 blade variations are the ones where I don't know if I'm referring to them correctly. For example, I would identify the 2 blade variations pictured below with a blade on each end as cattle knives. I would identify the 2 blade variation pictured below with both blades on the same end as a Jack knife. The one I'm calling a Jack knife is also known as a Cigar knife.

My sense is that "all of the above" are correct .

jerryd6818 wrote:Please don't throw anymore shirt in the fan, I'm covered with it already.

My understanding is that a Cattle knife and a Stock knife need to have a spey blade.

RalphAlsip wrote:The 2 blade variations are the ones where I don't know if I'm referring to them correctly. For example, I would identify the 2 blade variations pictured below with a blade on each end as cattle knives. I would identify the 2 blade variation pictured below with both blades on the same end as a Jack knife. The one I'm calling a Jack knife is also known as a Cigar knife.

My sense is that "all of the above" are correct .

I agree with you, except that I would call your knives "STUNNING." Thanks for showing them; The middle one with the clip blade is just off the charts and the others would be also, if I could just go out to the mailbox and get a good luck at them.

FRJ wrote:My understanding is that a Cattle knife and a Stock knife need to have a spey blade.

I disagree.

RalphAlsip wrote:The 2 blade variations are the ones where I don't know if I'm referring to them correctly. For example, I would identify the 2 blade variations pictured below with a blade on each end as cattle knives. I would identify the 2 blade variation pictured below with both blades on the same end as a Jack knife. The one I'm calling a Jack knife is also known as a Cigar knife.

My sense is that "all of the above" are correct .

Now you guys are confusing me.

The first pic of the 2 bladed knife with one blade blade on other end is...

1. If less than 3.5 inches, it is a pen knife.
2. At 3.5 inches or more it is a double ended Jack.

Whether or not it is a double ended Jack Cattle knife I don't know. But it is in fact or maybe opinion a double ended jack. What I have read and been taught.

Jerry

tongueriver wrote:

FRJ wrote:My understanding is that a Cattle knife and a Stock knife need to have a spey blade.

I disagree.

The basis for acknowledging a Cattle knife must rely on more than the frame style.
What blades must they hold to be thought of as Cattle knives?

Would you call this knife a Cattle knife? It is 3 3/8"

dang I'm cornfused sumpin fearse

I'm not trying to argue - just trying to explain why I'm confused. Two of the knives I posted earlier are Case 45 patters (06245 and 06245 1/2). I have seen several publications refer to the Case 45 pattern as a "Cattle" knife regardless of the blade configuration.

RalphAlsip wrote:I'm not trying to argue - just trying to explain why I'm confused. Two of the knives I posted earlier are Case 45 patters (06245 and 06245 1/2). I have seen several publications refer to the Case 45 pattern as a "Cattle" knife regardless of the blade configuration.

Your statement goes back to my original question. I bought this Marbles "Cattle Knife" that looks like a equal end jack to me. I guess if you're a knife maker you can call them whatever you want.

ken98k wrote:

RalphAlsip wrote:I'm not trying to argue - just trying to explain why I'm confused. Two of the knives I posted earlier are Case 45 patters (06245 and 06245 1/2). I have seen several publications refer to the Case 45 pattern as a "Cattle" knife regardless of the blade configuration.

Your statement goes back to my original question. I bought this Marbles "Cattle Knife" that looks like a equal end jack to me. I guess if you're a knife maker you can call them whatever you want.
Cattle.jpg

And therein lies the source of much of the confusion. FWIW, here's what Levine's Guide to Knives has to say about cattle knives. The text is followed by three pages of pictures of cattle knives by numerous makers - three blade, four blade, junior size, fancy, and three spring examples are pictured. Aside from the rounded equal-end shape the predominant feature is the existence of a spey blade on about 90% of them. None have fewer than three blades.

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote:

ken98k wrote:

RalphAlsip wrote:I'm not trying to argue - just trying to explain why I'm confused. Two of the knives I posted earlier are Case 45 patters (06245 and 06245 1/2). I have seen several publications refer to the Case 45 pattern as a "Cattle" knife regardless of the blade configuration.

Your statement goes back to my original question. I bought this Marbles "Cattle Knife" that looks like a equal end jack to me. I guess if you're a knife maker you can call them whatever you want.
Cattle.jpg

And therein lies the source of much of the confusion. FWIW, here's what Levine's Guide to Knives has to say about cattle knives. The text is followed by three pages of pictures of cattle knives by numerous makers - three blade, four blade, junior size, fancy, and three spring examples are pictured. Aside from the rounded equal-end shape the predominant feature is the existence of a spey blade on about 90% of them. None have fewer than three blades.

Ken

Thanks Ken. Very informative.

Texas Jerry, no offense intended my friend. Just was getting confusing more than informational. My apologies for my delivery.

A double ended jack can be built on different frames, but what distinguishes it from a pen knife(which commonly have a blade hinging from both ends of course) is the length, over 3 1/2 inches.

As the two Kens stated, a knife company calls knives all sorts of things and adds to the confusion.

Jerry