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Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:08 pm
by Lawrence1
I could use some additional help identifying the folding pocket knife pictured here. I posted a single picture recently but, as asked, I'm posting additional pics. This knife was reportedly owned by an Arkansas mill owner who died in 1917. I am not able to find any identifying marks on the knife. Any help would be most appreciated. Lawrence
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:40 am
by dcgm4
That's a horseman's knife. The long curved tool is called a hoof pick and is used to clean a horse's hooves. The other tools on the same side as the hoof pick are a corkscrew (obviously) and a leather punch. The handles are stag.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:03 am
by RobesonsRme.com
The hoof pick doubles as a nut cracker, as well, hence the indent in the frame close to the hinged end.
Charlie
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:55 pm
by toolboy
Not certain but it looks like there is also a fleam blade that is not open, it would be hinged on the bottom or big end
and lays between the stag scale and the liner on side opposite the shield, looks like the end is exposed. This pattern
will really grow on you. Thanks for posting the pictures
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:02 am
by KnifeSlinger#81
What is a fleam blade?
This knife must have been a sight to see when it was new. If only it could talk.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:12 am
by knife7knut
KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:What is a fleam blade?
This knife must have been a sight to see when it was new. If only it could talk.
A fleam is a double edged short blade used for bleeding animals(and people).The point is at 90 degrees to the blade and it is used by laying the point against the spot to be bled and striking the back of the blade with a piece of wood or something. People actually believed at one point in time that bleeding was good for you!
Here is a picture of a Wostenholm horseman's knife with the fleam blade open on the left side of the picture.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:24 am
by KnifeSlinger#81
Thanks, I was always curious how those were used. Very interesting, does not sound enjoyable to use though. I have seen those called a bleeder as well, is that also a correct term for the same type of blade, or a slightly different blade?
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:55 am
by terryl308
KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:Thanks, I was always curious how those were used. Very interesting, does not sound enjoyable to use though. I have seen those called a bleeder as well, is that also a correct term for the same type of blade, or a slightly different blade?
I believe it is the same thing, interesting old horseman's knife.
Terry
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:27 pm
by RobesonsRme.com
I think fleams were used on livestock and lancets were used on people.
Charlie
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:12 pm
by knife7knut
RobesonsRme.com wrote:I think fleams were used on livestock and lancets were used on people.
Charlie
I think you are correct Charlie.As far as I can tell the only difference between a lancet and a fleam is the fleam is usually all metal to allow it to be sterilized whereas a fleam usually has a horn(or other material)handle.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:22 pm
by SolWarrior
When I read Toolboy's comment about a fleam blade I got curious, couldn't see anything
and immediately went to google it. I found this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleam then came back and read the rest of the thread. As always, you guys are right on the money.
Nice old knife.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:27 am
by lr64knives
They supposedly at times to bleed a horse or cow, supposedly helped cure them when sick they thought back then.. They placed the point on the nose & hit it with a board..
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:30 am
by lr64knives
I have & or collect several old farrier or horseman,s knives most are Civil War era and Sheffield made as the Wostenholm shown.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:57 am
by ea42
In the first photo, the blade pointing down looks like it has some sort of tang stamp under the rust, you might want to clean some of that off in order to read it. A pencil eraser is usually pretty effective for that, followed by a brisk rub with an oily rag.
Eric
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:51 pm
by Lawrence1
Absolutely wonderful responses to my questiins. You guys are the best. Many thanks!!! Lawrence
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:27 pm
by Lawrence1
I followed advice found in this forum and was able to uncover a stamp on one blade. It appears to read "SIMMONS HOWE ENGLAND". Does anyone have any information on this company? Thanks again! Lawrence
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:58 pm
by toolboy
Simmons Hardware Co abbreviated to Simmons Hdwe Co. c. 1868 - 1960 located in St Louis Mo did have the Horseman pattern made in England. The one I had (cannot find a picture) had their trademark KEEN KUTTER etched on the master blade. Simmons grew to be a giant in the industry gaining control of Walden Knife Co and later on merged with Winchester. In 1940 Shapleigh Hardware purchased Simmons and used the Keen Kutter mark until 1960
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:11 pm
by Lawrence1
Thanks for sharing your expertise. This is exactly the info I was looking for. Any idea if Simmons Howe was located in Sheffield? Lawrence
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:56 am
by toolboy
Simmons Hdwe were not located in England that I know of, only contracted their work there. Will try to attach a picture from a Keen Kutter book by Alvin Sellens
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:19 pm
by Lawrence1
That illustration from the catalog is awesome. Establishing the date of manufacturer was one of my biggest hurdles and you've solved it. Don't know if I've mentioned it yet, but I did find a fleam blade on this knife. It was somewhat rusted and difficult to open, but it's there. Your illustration is exactly the same as my knife, except there is no Keen Kutter logo on the blades. Thanks again.
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:44 pm
by terryl308
E.C.Simmons was in St. Louis, Mo but had knives made for them in Germany and England.
Terry
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:37 am
by Lawrence1
Thanks for the info on place of manufacture. Any chance this knife was made in Sheffield, England?
Re: Help with identification of pocket knife in museum
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:59 am
by bitebite4197
Any idea what this was designed for? Says ROBT KLAAS SOLINGEN below a pair of BLACK KISSING KRANES