Tang Stamps Charts

A place to ask or answer knife related questions.
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orvet
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by orvet »

It has been suggested that I make this a sticky. I think it is a good idea. ::tu::
I also moved it to the Q & A forum as it seems to belong here more than in the General Forum.
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by junebug »

WOOOOOOOT ::tu:: 8)
THANKS ,DALE ::handshake::
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Re: Goins' and Tang Stamps

Post by bernynhel »

While Goins' is a handy reference, regarding Hammer Brand, they only mention that Imperial purchased the brand for use with their shell-type handled knives which, to me, suggests that all Imperial/Hammer Brand knives will have shell-type handled knives and that any Hammer Brand knife with solid handles/bolsters is a NYKCo made knife (Goin's Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings ©1998, p.118., "Hammer Brand c. 1936 - present A trademark used by Imperial. Knives with this mark are of the shell-handle type."). Nothing under Goins' Imperial or New York Knife Co listings says anything different. No distinctions between the various Hammer Brand tang stamps to distinguish Imperial from NYKCo or anything else of much use so this thread is a good idea although I also think that tang stamp charts would be useful as sticky posts at the top of each specific knife company section of this forum. BTW, Price/Zalesky has the same info regarding Hammer Brand as Goins'. I might also add that, IMHO, Goins' use of the sentence "This company manufactured "Bowie" type knives, among other kinds of cutlery." may not, in reality, apply to as many knife companies as Goins' suggests by tacking that sentence on to the end of various knife company listings. Has anyone seen a Holtzapffel Bowie? Thanks for all the great tang stamp posts. - Bill
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by mickeyevans »

this is a great thread, thanks Jerry for all your work collecting and sharing reference material all the time
how do I book mark a post?
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by mickeyevans »

never mind, I found the button to bookmark it and I did, now I need to find my bookmarks
oh yeah, user control panel, then manage book marks, I needed to know this
thanks again to all, this forum is better than all the books I have, I am still learning to use it and read all the threads going back years
should have done that before buying knives but I could not wait, ha ha
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by junebug »

WE WANT TANG STAMP CHART INFO................ CHAT ROOM IS OVER THERE >>>>>>>
:shock: ::super_happy:: ::sotb::
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by junebug »

some ULSTER charts/info.............. ::tu::


the charts with tang pics and not just writing are way better IMO...but these DO HELP. ::nod::
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ULSTER.jpg
ULSTER.jpg (32.89 KiB) Viewed 22721 times
ellenville.jpg
ellenville.jpg (27.25 KiB) Viewed 22721 times
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Re: Goins' and Tang Stamps

Post by orvet »

bernynhel wrote: I might also add that, IMHO, Goins' use of the sentence "This company manufactured "Bowie" type knives, among other kinds of cutlery." may not, in reality, apply to as many knife companies as Goins' suggests by tacking that sentence on to the end of various knife company listings. Has anyone seen a Holtzapffel Bowie? Thanks for all the great tang stamp posts. - Bill
Bill,
Great point! ::tu::
I have pondered on that very term and his use of it.
I think Goins is using the term "Bowie type knives" to mean fixed blade knives.
That is about the only way it really makes sense. Or else he had a different meaning for that phrase that he never bothered to share with his readers.

John Goins was very good at cataloging information about knives and knife companies, however the study of knife companies is very broad field of study with hundreds of companies (in the USA alone), tens of thousands products and millions of details to go along with them. It would be impossible for one person to know everything about each company and each product they produced in the USA in the last century, let alone in other countries and before 1900. There is just too much information for one person to know it all. I don’t know of any knife expert who even claims to know most of it.

I do believe John Goins’ “Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings” is a great reference work and I use it nearly every day, often multiple times per day. But I also keep in mind that the scope of cutlery history has changed since that book was published 16 years ago. Apart from new companies, there has been more discovered & more history written about the old companies.
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by Old Hunter »

Hey Bug - thanks for the Ulster info - it seems to be rare! OH
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Re: Goins' and Tang Stamps

Post by bernynhel »

orvet wrote:
bernynhel wrote: I might also add that, IMHO, Goins' use of the sentence "This company manufactured "Bowie" type knives, among other kinds of cutlery." may not, in reality, apply to as many knife companies as Goins' suggests by tacking that sentence on to the end of various knife company listings. Has anyone seen a Holtzapffel Bowie? Thanks for all the great tang stamp posts. - Bill
Bill,
Great point! ::tu::
I have pondered on that very term and his use of it.
I think Goins is using the term "Bowie type knives" to mean fixed blade knives.
That is about the only way it really makes sense. Or else he had a different meaning for that phrase that he never bothered to share with his readers....
I hadnt thought of that - I thought that maybe they used it kind of arbitrarily on listings to break up the listings that only list the marking and the dates of use to add pages to the edition since I found several listings that cite dates of use prior to 1834 with that tag so couldnt possibly have been making "Bowie" type knives. Though by 1850 Sheffield makers were cranking out Bowie knives hot and heavy. I use Goins' multiple times daily also and use the info in my knife listings and have been accused of misrepresenting knives I sell on eBay on occasion as a result.
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by junebug »

Old Hunter wrote:Hey Bug - thanks for the Ulster info - it seems to be rare! OH
NO PROBLEM ::tu:: HOPE THIS THREAD "HELPS" PEOPLE.....................


and HOPE more decide to post more CHARTS/INFO CHARTS here soon................... ::nod:: 8)

as many have stated...NO BOOK is the ALL MIGHTY CORRECT IN ALL FACTS book.......
this will help people VISUALLY SEE several charts, to compare info with........,without owning every book out there.......... ::paranoid:: :mrgreen:


junebug 8) 8)
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

So, when this thread reaches dozens of pages, filled with a hodge-podge of tang stamp photos, charts, illustrations, etc., in no particular order, is someone going to arrange them into some better, more accessible and more easily navigated form?

And are we violating any copyright laws by doing this?

Just wondering.

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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

I think Goins' 1st edition had a Bowie reference section. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that.

In his later editions, he moved those makers into the general listing and added that phrase to the listings for those companies.

Charlie Noyes
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HoltzapffelBowie1.jpg
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HoltzapffelBowie2.jpg
HoltzapffelBowie2.jpg (46.65 KiB) Viewed 20171 times
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by Old Hunter »

Three modern Ulster tang stamps (50's, 60's, 70's).
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ULSTER KNIFE USA.JPG
ULSTER USA.JPG
ULSTER STAINLESS NY USA.JPG
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by peanut740 »

We knife collectors owe great amount of thanks to the late John Goins and his wife Charlotte.The amount of work that went into their guides had to be staggering.The last one was published in 1998 and there wasn't any Google or any other search engines to aid them.They must to have loved what they were doing.I consider Gions' Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings to be the bible of antique knife collectors.
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by orvet »

For general knife knowledge John & Charlotte Goins did a spectacular job of researching and cataloging knife markings, sometimes just a single instance of a tang stamp.
Very much a wide-angle view of knife information.

Bernard Levine has much more in depth information and nearly as wide a scope as the Goins. It is truly amazing the information he has amassed in his lifetime of study. I am told by a mutual friend that he knows as much about plants as he does about knives, perhaps even more.


Truly knife collecting would be very different today if not for the works of the Goins’ and Bernard Levine. ::tu::
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by Knife Nut »

I agree 100% with Peanut's and Dale's comments about the Goins' and Levine's influence on pocket knife collecting. It got me thinking of other pioneers in the hobby. More names that come to mind are; Harold Peterson, Col. C. J. Hyde, Jim Sargent, Dewey & Lavona Ferguson, Cindy & Jim Taylor, Bruce & Debbie Voyles, and Geoffrey Tweedale to name a few.
All of these folks had a tremendous effect on me over the past 50 years.

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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by Shearer »

WIRE JACK.
I asked Glen Davies who put a lot off work on this Article if I could post these.I did not put all the information as I am not computer literate and could not work out how to copy direct from web site.
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by Old Hunter »

I just acquired another Ulster with a different tang stamp - this one is an Ulster Old Timer 58OT from the Prince Albert tobacco tin promotional series (of three). OH
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ULSTER USA 58OT Tang.JPG
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Re: Tang Stamps

Post by Old Hunter »

Belknap Hardware teardrop jack, don't know much about the age, but I think pre-WWII. OH
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Belknap Hardware Teardrop Jack  tang mark-opt.jpg
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Re: Tang Stamps Charts

Post by bladeguy58 »

I recently purchase a Remington R5 on eBay and it's a UMC with Remington in a straight font which would make it 1924-1933. My questions is I read where another company was making Remington's but reusing some of the older stamps, how I be sure of the age?
Thank you!
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Re: Tang Stamps Charts

Post by tjmurphy »

That's a dandy question!! ::tu:: I'm waiting for the answer to that one myself.
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Re: Tang Stamps Charts

Post by bladeguy58 »

TJ,
Here are pictures of mine. If anyone can tell me theses are 1925-1933 instead of a repro by Camillus 1982-present I would be so happy. Not to say that a Camillus isn't another great name in cutlery I would just prefer it to be an original.
Thanks~
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Remington UMC R5.jpg
Remington UMC R5.jpg (26.8 KiB) Viewed 22176 times
Remington UMC R5 2.jpg
Remington UMC R5 2.jpg (31.51 KiB) Viewed 22176 times
Remington UMC R5 3.jpg
Remington UMC R5 3.jpg (37.88 KiB) Viewed 22176 times
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Re: Tang Stamps Charts

Post by Miller Bro's »

It`s not an original Remington made knife.
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Re: Tang Stamps Charts

Post by bladeguy58 »

Miller,
Thank you for confirming my suspicions, so I'm assuming it's from the 80's? Oh well it can still be a nice EDC. It just looked too knew and the blade steel didn't look very old. Lesson learned!
Thanks for the reply!
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