Hammer Brand Whittler? Is this the real deal?

[TripleF]

I've seen and handled several thousands of knives over the past 2+ years, and probably looked at several hundred thousand
and this is the first Hammer Brand whittler I've ever seen.

Is this knife a custom made or stock knife? Anybody know?

[313 Mike]

I'm by no means any kind of expert Scott (as you know), but I would guess that a Hammer Brand blade was put into a different brand's frame. I've never seen or heard of an Imperial Hammer Brand whittler, and the Imperial Hammer's rarely had a shield...and the few I've seen that have had a shield it has been the Federal style shield like you will find on the Imperial shells, not that oval one on your knife.....just my humble observations....

Mike

[knifeaholic]

I think its real...its of course not a New York Knife Co knife but a later Hammer Brand made by Imperial Schrade, probably circa 1950's to 1960's. I resembes the pocketknives made by Imperial Schrade for Sears with the CRAFTSMAN brand. You should post that knife on the latest 863 pattern thread.

[313 Mike]

Well there ya go, the expert has spoken! That'll teach me to speak up too soon.
I did not know that Imperial used the Hammer Brand USA stamped blades on knives other than Hammer Brands. You would think if the knife was intended to be for the Craftsman brand, putting a Hammer Brand stamped blade on it would be kind of out of place.
Learn something every day.
Mike

[tjmurphy]

There's a new one for Jerry. Expect a PM Nice knife by the way Puts me in mind of the Ulster.

[TripleF]

There's a new one for Jerry. Expect a PM Nice knife by the way Puts me in mind of the Ulster.

Yeah, TJ, after viewing the Schrade 863 thread I thought this looked purty dang close to an Ulster!

[knifeaholic]

Well there ya go, the expert has spoken! That'll teach me to speak up too soon.
I did not know that Imperial used the Hammer Brand USA stamped blades on knives other than Hammer Brands. You would think if the knife was intended to be for the Craftsman brand, putting a Hammer Brand stamped blade on it would be kind of out of place.
Learn something every day.
Mike

I'm not saying that knife was made for Sears. Just that the tooling and handle material are similar to some 1960's era knives made by Imperial Schrade for Sears. Imperial Schrade owned the Hammer Brand trademark after 1932. While we usually associated Imperial's use of the HB mark with the shell handled Jackmaster knives, they did occasionally use it on the solid bolster knives like that one as well.

[313 Mike]

I'm not saying that knife was made for Sears. Just that the tooling and handle material are similar to some 1960's era knives made by Imperial Schrade for Sears. Imperial Schrade owned the Hammer Brand trademark after 1932. While we usually associated Imperial's use of the HB mark with the shell handled Jackmaster knives, they did occasionally use it on the solid bolster knives like that one as well.

I gotcha Steve... this other Hammer Brand I have here is another example of a solid bolster knife with a Hammer Brand USA blade

Mike

[Lawrence]

I know this is an old thread but iI think I found a knife exacly like yours 3F cheers needs to be cleaned up a bit

[kootenay joe]

Lawrence, does yours Say "Hammer Brand" on it ? I think i can make out "U.S.A." running vertically ?
kj

[Quick Steel]

Scott, or anyone, kindly educate me on this. It has been my understanding that a Whittler pattern has the pen and coping blade together at one end and the larger master blade at the other. Here we see the coping blade with the master blade. I googled a couple of different sources and all indicate the two smaller blades are together. Maybe this is a minor point, I mean the layout of the blades, but I would just like to know.

[orvet]

Just that the tooling and handle material are similar to some 1960's era knives made by Imperial Schrade for Sears. Imperial Schrade owned the Hammer Brand trademark after 1932. While we usually associated Imperial's use of the HB mark with the shell handled Jackmaster knives, they did occasionally use it on the solid bolster knives like that one as well.

I know this is an old thread, but I feel I need to clarify what Steve said about Imperial Schrade owning the Hammer Brand name. The history of these companies is so interwoven that I had to start making my own notes and writing charts and historical summaries so that I could keep track of who owned whom. And if I’m making a post I usually refer to my notes multiple times because it’s easy to misspeak. I had to consult them for this post.

Imperial Schrade did own the Hammer Brand trademark but Imperial Schrade did not exist in 1932. Imperial Knife Company did exist in 1932 and purchase the rights to the Hammer Brand name after the closure of New York Knife Company.

The actual formation of Imperial Schrade happened circa 1983 when Albert Baer purchased all the remaining stock of Imperial Knife Company and Imperial became a privately held corporation. I believe the name was officially changed to Imperial Schrade Corporation in 1985.

Granted, there was a joint venture between Imperial and Ulster in 1943 for production of knives for World War II called Kingston Cutlery Company.
Kingston Cutlery Company purchased Schrade Cut Co in 1946.
Kingston was dissolved in 1947 and Ulster, Schrade Walden & Imperial merged to form IKAC, Imperial Knife Associated Companies.

But to the best of my knowledge there was no Imperial Schrade Corporation in 1932.

I have great respect for Steve as a researcher, scholar and knife historian. Am sure this is one of those times when the fingers typed before the brains have finished giving them instructions. Mine do that all the time.
I appreciate it when someone points out my errors to me. There’s nothing I hate worse than giving wrong or confusing information.

QS- Camillus called this pattern the "Carpenters Whittler" and a number of companies made the same pattern, most notably Ulster and Schrade. Because of the seeming popularity of the pattern, to judge from the number of these things we see today, the whittler blades in a stockman configuration must've met a need for many knife users. I am not sure why that is, it may be the reason that I do not like most whittler's, that is because of the stiff master blade. The arthritis in my fingers don't like stiff springs in slip joints.

[Quick Steel]

Thank you Dale. Good info.

[TripleF]

Thank you Dale. Good info.

Ditto. Much respect.

[knifeaholic]

Just that the tooling and handle material are similar to some 1960's era knives made by Imperial Schrade for Sears. Imperial Schrade owned the Hammer Brand trademark after 1932. While we usually associated Imperial's use of the HB mark with the shell handled Jackmaster knives, they did occasionally use it on the solid bolster knives like that one as well.

I know this is an old thread, but I feel I need to clarify what Steve said about Imperial Schrade owning the Hammer Brand name. The history of these companies is so interwoven that I had to start making my own notes and writing charts and historical summaries so that I could keep track of who owned whom. And if I’m making a post I usually refer to my notes multiple times because it’s easy to misspeak. I had to consult them for this post.

Imperial Schrade did own the Hammer Brand trademark but Imperial Schrade did not exist in 1932. Imperial Knife Company did exist in 1932 and purchase the rights to the Hammer Brand name after the closure of New York Knife Company.

The actual formation of Imperial Schrade happened circa 1983 when Albert Baer purchased all the remaining stock of Imperial Knife Company and Imperial became a privately held corporation. I believe the name was officially changed to Imperial Schrade Corporation in 1985.

Granted, there was a joint venture between Imperial and Ulster in 1943 for production of knives for World War II called Kingston Cutlery Company.
Kingston Cutlery Company purchased Schrade Cut Co in 1946.
Kingston was dissolved in 1947 and Ulster, Schrade Walden & Imperial merged to form IKAC, Imperial Knife Associated Companies.

But to the best of my knowledge there was no Imperial Schrade Corporation in 1932.

I have great respect for Steve as a researcher, scholar and knife historian. Am sure this is one of those times when the fingers typed before the brains have finished giving them instructions. Mine do that all the time.
I appreciate it when someone points out my errors to me. There’s nothing I hate worse than giving wrong or confusing information.

QS- Camillus called this pattern the "Carpenters Whittler" and a number of companies made the same pattern, most notably Ulster and Schrade. Because of the seeming popularity of the pattern, to judge from the number of these things we see today, the whittler blades in a stockman configuration must've met a need for many knife users. I am not sure why that is, it may be the reason that I do not like most whittler's, that is because of the stiff master blade. The arthritis in my fingers don't like stiff springs in slip joints.

Just to clarify. My understanding is that in the late 1940's, post WWII, Imperial Knife Company, Schrade Cutlery, Ulster, and Kingston merged into one large corporation, under the ownership of Albert Baer and Felix Mirando. I may have erred in calling this combined company Imperial Schrade.

The name of the combined company was Imperial Knife Associated Companies. I know that in the 1970's, Imperial Knife Associated Companies listed a corporate headquarters at 1776 Broadway, New York, NY. I believe that this information can be verified at the Collectors-of-Schrades-r.us website. Yes, the corporate name was later changed to Imperial Schrade Corp.

So...I stand by my statement that the companies were combined from about 1948 on and that the trademarks (like Hammer Brand and Diamond Edge) owned by the corporation could be used on knives made in any of the factories owned.

Imperial Knife Company acquired the Hammer Brand trademarks in the 1930's. The posted knife was most likely made in the 1950's to 1960's. Therefore IKAC effectively owned the Hammer Brand trademark at the time this knife was made.

Looking again, I guess I misspoke in saying that Imperial Schrade owned the trademark after 1932. Imperial owned the trademark after 1932, Schrade and Imperial were under the same ownership after 1948. So Imperial owned the trademark, then IKAC owned it, the Imperial Schrade.

[orvet]

Looking again, I guess I misspoke in saying that Imperial Schrade owned the trademark after 1932. Imperial owned the trademark after 1932, Schrade and Imperial were under the same ownership after 1948. So Imperial owned the trademark, then IKAC owned it, the Imperial Schrade.

That is exactly right Steve; Imperial had the Hammer Brand name in the 1930s but the entity ‘Imperial Schrade Corporation’ didn’t come into existence until about 1985.
Everything else you said is spot on.