Page 1 of 2

Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:14 am
by muskrat man
There is no right or wrong way to do things, everyone has thier own tricks and does thier own thing. This is how I do it, so a single blade slip joint.
NOTE: all pin peening was done on a flat metail surface, despite where the pictures were taken. soft bench blocks are only used for a base when drifting pins out of liners and bolsters.
The donor was a GEC #73 the handles were to be of red deer stag.
Image

I use a thin bladed knife with a convex edge to shear the pins, I don't reccomend you do it this particular way if you are nervous about keeping the handles intact
Image

a look at the guts
Image

Now using a micarta bench block and a punch I punch out the butt, pivot and rocker pins, rocker pins have to be punched out from the liner side becuase they have a head on them
Image

look ma, no pins!
Image

I use a tapered cone punch to knock out the scale and shield pins, this counteracts the flanged portion of the pin. The shield is elongated and the pin is soldered to the back of it so you'll have to put it between the jaws of a vice so the shield can freely fall out
Image
Image

pins out, remove scale
Image

Broken down to basic components
Image

The handles to be, stag from european red deer
Image

Trace the old handles out on the underside of the new ones taking note of areas with good texture and the natural shape and thickness of the stag. It is VERY important to remember, when tracing out the handles the front is the back and vice versa. What I mean is, when you trace the front scale it will actually make the slab you traced it on fit the back side of the knife if that makes any sense, it's mirrored
Image

whack off the scrap on the bandsaw
Image

using the disk sander I set my rest just off 90 degrees so if I accidentally grind it too short, when I thin it from the under side it will replace the length. Anyway grind holding it like this until I get to the line.
Image

As you can see it's still a tad long
Image

now I grind it like this being careful to keep the same angles as before, grind a little and check.
Image

now it fits
Image

rough it into the liner holding both tightly together by hand
Image

Repeat for the other side

Now, I like to fit my scales down thin so they retain as much texture as possible and make them more pocket friendly, so thin them down from the underside, you may have to re-tune your length and make certain to keep an eye on the thickness of each scale, important to have them as close to the same thickness as possible.
Image

If the top surface of the stag is not true I touch the ends to the sander to flatten them out a bit trying to to loose too much texture. These are pretty close
Image

check to make sure the liners are not bowed, this will result in gaps between the liner(s) and backspring later on, these are nice and flat
Image

Now I make my mark, now any knives I diassemble are marked with a stamp and not a dremel, pretty tidy looking eh?
Image

a couple drops of superglu to tack them in place and clamp to avoid gaps
Image

now drill out the pin holes, 1/16" for the scale pins and 3/32" for the rocker pin
Image

pin stubs inserted into holes, brass for this knife
Image

flatten the ends of the pins and peen them out with a cross pein hammer on the liner side
Image

Now for this knife the pins nearest to the bolsters are likely to be hafted down, so I peen them to spread them in the hole, spinning will only make a head that will be hafted away allowing the ends of the scale to bow up over time, the pin spread in the hole makes it much tighter. The center pin on the belly side is spun to a nice round head, see the difference?
Image

haft down the heads on the liner side so they do not impede operation of the knife
Image

insert butt and rocker pins. bolster holes are slightly under 3/32" on these GEC #73 so you'll have to turn one down slightly.
Image

Nip them off and file the ends flat, you can see about how much excess I lave myself to allow proper peining/spinning
Image

butt pin peened and center pin spun. bolster pins must be hit face on with the face of a ball pein or the cross pein portion of a hammer to spread them, you can really whack the butt pins becuase there is noting to pivot eliminating the worry of peening it too tight
Image

nice, no gaps!
Image

now I compress the blade and backspring in a vice, easy to line things up with GEC's flush joints
Image

pin drops right in
Image

nip, flatten and pein with a .007 slackener, one will work but I prefer to use two .003 or .004 slackeners, one on each side to help the blade to lay center but I rarely have problems with the GEC slippies
Image

everything hafted down on a 220 belt, I then take it to 600
Image

the hand sand everything smooth with 400 grit wet/dry paper, then onto 600 grit then it's ready to buff
Image


first I buff with a loose wheel and matchless white compound, then another run with a loose wheel and scratchless pink and you get this
Image
Image

Hope you enjoyed. Will be happy to entertain any questions you may have

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:02 am
by blademaker
Very nice....
There is more to go wrong than right......with me anyway. Seems it all went your way....wonder why?... you're good....very nice work!!! And nice knife!!

Craig

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:46 am
by rangerbluedog
Muskrat, you make it all look so easy...

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:07 pm
by muskrat man
Thanks, there is NO substitute for actually doing it, experience helps A LOT

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:45 pm
by Darksev
Good to know my methodology is very similar to the experts (except for the pin spinning. I'm a hammerer) :D

Kaleb, do you notice a huge difference between white and pink when buffing? I've been stopping at white, and while it looks good, sometimes I get some very fine lines in my mirror polish while yours always look like liquid glass.

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:28 pm
by Matt Hammon
Great tutorial. Thanks for posting it. Two questions; which may seem silly to those who do this regularly, but I'm not sure so I thought I'd ask.

1) Compared to regular nails, are the pins used in these knives much softer to allow for you to peen, spin, and do whatever else is needed or do you really hammer on them to get them to do what you want?

2) Peen, and spun. Do you use different tools to accomplish this or same tools with different techniques? Peen is where it's kind of "mashed" over and irregular shaped, whereas spun has a nice clean look, correct?

Thanks many times over for the info and Happy New Year!

Matt

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:04 pm
by Darksev
the pins that are in the knives to start with are the same materials used for re-assembly. it's brass and/or nickel silver rod. Occasioally I use stainless pins as well. Brass and NS are rather easily formed with a hammer or pin spinner, stainless not so much. (actually the only time I really use stainless is for pivot pins, usually in Schrades as that's what the factory used on lockbacks)

Peening is the action of striking the exposed tip of the pin with a hammer in order to deform it. It's much like forming a rivet the old fashioned way. repeated strikes expand the exposed area of the pin, making it look like a letter T (basicly). Flip then repeat on the other side and you end up with an Hourglass shape, if you want to look at it that way. You can then (if you do it like I do) sand off the ugly parts and end up with a flush pin that is expanded into the countersink you put into your handles. It's hard to explain, maybe I'll diagram something later :)

Spinning accomplishes the same goal usually faster. Spinning is done with (not trying to be silly here) a spinning tool which is chucked into a drill press. The tool is pressed against the exposed pin head, and both mushrooms it and trims off the extra. Rather than an hourglass type shape where a few MM of the pin is swelled up going down the shaft, it makes more like a thumbtack looking head. If you grind off the head, then you loose the ability of the pin to fasten.

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:39 pm
by orvet
Kaleb,
Nice work on the tutorial and the knife. ::tu:: ::tu::

Your right that there as many ways to do this as there are people doing it.

I follow pretty much the same basic steps, though I prefer to thin the handle material before fitting the length exactly.
I usually pin the handles after I have finished hafting the handles so that I can use spun pins, just because I like the look of the spun head on the pin. But to do that I use golf shaft epoxy to glue the handle to the liner as I don't trust super glue.


EXCELLENT tutorial!
Anyone wanting to learn how to rehandle a knife can follow this tutorial and reasonably except to have a nice finished product!

GREAT JOB! ::tu:: ::tu::

Dale

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:28 pm
by knifemaker3
Fantastic job on both knife and tutorial! Great looking stag you put on there! Thanks for sharing your method with us!

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:38 pm
by muskrat man
Adam, said it better than I could have.

Adam, yes there is quite a difference between the white and pink, especially if you have a large bolster (like on a case 172 clasp or a big schrade 51OT) the white will leave very fine whisk marks if you veiw it under a bright light, the pink leaves a finish that is as close to flawless (if you did your buffing right) as you can get, the whisk marks are so fine you almost need a loupe and strong lighting to see them. I also let a "head" build up on my pink wheel, the white I keep clean and rake the wheel often but the pink I only rake ever so often so a head of compound builds up and it creates a more even finish (for me anyway)

Dale, I don't trust super glue either. I just use a couple drops to hold the handle in place long enough to get the pin holes drilled without it shifting around, the pins do the holding.

If this is only informative to one curious party, then it was worth my while :D

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:52 am
by caddyman1973
Thanks for sharing MM. I enjoyed it greatly as well. ::tu::

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:29 am
by knfcollector
Great tutorial Kaleb. I was just wondering if you countersink the holes in the bolsters and handles before peening to both hold more securely and in the case of the handles to keep from cracking. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing any tutorial for working on vintage switchblades that you'd be willing to post. Keep up the excellent work!

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:57 am
by muskrat man
I normally don't countersink, I had problems with cracking the handles when I first started but have gotten the "feel" off peening, and can "feel" when it's right. Bolsters are pre countersunk slightly when made so no worries there. I hope to do some more various tutorials in the future so stay tuned

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:09 pm
by Diligence
Good job MM....this is pretty much how I have done it too. I like the idea of using 2 slackeners, will have to try that.

Cheers,
D

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:26 am
by knives4sale
Thanks for your willingness to share and the effort you put into it. I really learn a lot from your tutorials. I have a master binder above my workbench where I keep all of the AAPK repair tutorials so I can review them as I work on different kinds of knives. Great Job!

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:18 pm
by snorkel
muskrat man wrote:I normally don't countersink, I had problems with cracking the handles when I first started but have gotten the "feel" off peening, and can "feel" when it's right. Bolsters are pre countersunk slightly when made so no worries there. I hope to do some more various tutorials in the future so stay tuned
is it best not to counter sink when peening the pins? Any tips for a newbie on peening?
I recently did a desert ironwood LB7 and had some fine cracks appear next to a couple of pins.

for a 3/32 hole I counter sunk it a bit with a 7/64s bit. If you do countersink how deep should you go?

Thanks,

Snorkel

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:00 pm
by Jacknifeben
i have had way over a 1000 pocket knives and never taken one apart, now i know why. great job.

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:55 am
by muskrat man
snorkel wrote:
muskrat man wrote:I normally don't countersink, I had problems with cracking the handles when I first started but have gotten the "feel" off peening, and can "feel" when it's right. Bolsters are pre countersunk slightly when made so no worries there. I hope to do some more various tutorials in the future so stay tuned
is it best not to counter sink when peening the pins? Any tips for a newbie on peening?
I recently did a desert ironwood LB7 and had some fine cracks appear next to a couple of pins.

for a 3/32 hole I counter sunk it a bit with a 7/64s bit. If you do countersink how deep should you go?

Thanks,

Snorkel
countersink with a bit only a few thousandths larger, about 1/2 the depth of the scale. this should help hold the scale while reducing the risk for cracking the scale(s)

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:20 am
by Curtis Wilson
Here are a couple of things that may help with those who do repairs or that make new folders hope that it will help someone.

To pre-load the spring here is something that I was told by J.B. Moore one of the oldest and one of the best foldermakers that I have had the prevlidge of knowing. Get a large double C vice-grips, A 2 x 4 x 8 block of wood, and some try pins.

I do not drill my center pin into the liners until the blade and spring are heat treated, and ready for assembly. Place the liners on the wood and drill for the pivot pin and the heal pin. Place one liner outside down and place the pins in both the blade-pivot and the spring heal pin. Now using the vice grips against the edge of the wood and against the back of the spring and slowly increase the tension to the point that it will walk and talk properly. This is the point that I drill the center pin into the liner. Then remove everthing and place the non drilled liner outside down onto the block and pin, then place the drilled liner and drill the center pin. Now you are ready to assemble the complete knife.

I have been using this method for making slip-joints for six years now, and you can put the proper amount of tension on the spring.

One other thing is that if you are using a spinner to dome the pins is to use a tapered reamer to slightly taper the pin hole (normally only about 1/16" is all that is necessary). The slight taper is very minimal to say the least, but will hold well. If you are using annealed brass or nickel silver to be spinned for the pinholes, the spinner if done properly in this manner will also expand into the taper as well as pressure against the sidewalls of the pinholes. Using this method you could even grind the button off the head of the pin and it will still hold well. I have done this quite a few times in the past and it does work. But just make sure that the pin material is annealed prior to being spun.
Hope that this is of some help to others in the future.
Curtis

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:51 am
by Jeffrey
Great Tutorial! Those stag scales are awesome!

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:04 am
by just in case
well done MM !

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:51 am
by zed6309
I really enjoyed reading this MM. amazing work, i hope one day to have a go at this ::tu::

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:21 pm
by Cooter
Hello! I am a 15 year old aspiring “knife mechanic” if you will, with a nice little workshop packed in a one car garage. Recently I attempted to re handle this old keen kutter, the celluloid scales were horrendous, but I could tell this was a well loved knife as the main blade was reground into a screwdriver. There are some gaps, and looking at them makes me want to throw it out a window, but hey, it was a good learning experience and it’s still a solid and functioning old jack knife. Here are a couple pictures I thought I would share.

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:52 pm
by Meridian_Mike
Hey.... that knife looks pretty nice!
Nice job!

Welcome to the forum!

::tu::

Re: Rehandling a slipjoint pocket knife with pins. My way

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:56 pm
by glennbad
Cooter wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:21 pm Hello! I am a 15 year old aspiring “knife mechanic” if you will, with a nice little workshop packed in a one car garage. Recently I attempted to re handle this old keen kutter, the celluloid scales were horrendous, but I could tell this was a well loved knife as the main blade was reground into a screwdriver. There are some gaps, and looking at them makes me want to throw it out a window, but hey, it was a good learning experience and it’s still a solid and functioning old jack knife. Here are a couple pictures I thought I would share.
Hey, it's still functional, right? And you pinned everything through also! Most on their first knife don't pin the covers (myself included). It's all about getting up the courage to take the darn thing apart in the first place.

Looks pretty decent from here. Get in there and do another!