Advice needed

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Berryb
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Advice needed

Post by Berryb »

Hi; I'm gonna be laid up for a while in the near future, and I'm trying to get some projects lined up so I don't have to watch "Days of Our Lives". One thing I was going to try is re-handling some old carbon steel kitchen knives. I read somewhere that I could just epoxy the scales on, but I think they look better with rivets or screws in them. I'm looking for suggestions; what to use and where to get them. Keep in mind I'm a rank beginner so easy is a definite consideration but not required. Thanks for your time.
Bruce
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orvet
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Re: Advice needed

Post by orvet »

Bruce it sounds like you’re going to make good use of your time. If you going to be laid up you might as well get some new knives out of the deal!

Cutler’s rivets would be my choice for this project. ::nod:: They are really easy to order from Jantz Supply, or any other knife makers supply house.

For an epoxy I use Bob Smith Industries Five Minute epoxy almost exclusively. I am told by a reliable source that the five minutes is more flexible than the 15 minutes or 30 minute epoxies. You can buy it on eBay, some knife supply houses carry it and I have recently found it readily available at the new Hobby Lobby store in town.

Enjoy your projects and hopefully you have a speedy recovery! ::tu::
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Gunsil
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Re: Advice needed

Post by Gunsil »

Orvet, I don't know who gave you the epoxy info but it is generally known that fast cure epoxy is more brittle than slow cure epoxy and slow cure is also a stronger bonding agent than fast cure. I have been building custom fishing rods for over 30 years and rod builders seldom use fast cure epoxy since rods flex and the slow cure epoxy flexes best. By slow cure I mean the 24 hour stuff, even half hour epoxy is considered fast, five minute epoxy is for repairs that don't need as much strength or flexibility and was formulated for those with less patience. West System slow cure epoxy is some of the best on the market.
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OLDE CUTLER
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Re: Advice needed

Post by OLDE CUTLER »

Since knives don't flex like fishing rods, fast cure will work just fine. The epoxy is used more to seal the space between the liners and handle material from moisture, dirt, animal hair and blood than holding the handles on. And you are right, the pins add something to the appearance.
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Gunsil
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Re: Advice needed

Post by Gunsil »

My answer was because Orvet said 5 minute epoxy was more flexible than slow cure epoxy when it is the opposite. I have made a few hunting knives and I haven't used epoxy on scales, they were fitted properly and pinned in place. I know knives don't flex, but the slow cure is stronger never the less and it is also less affected by moisture. Repeated exposure to water or sweat will cause epoxy to turn white and soften, the slow cure stuff not as quickly as the fast stuff and is better all around. Like I said, 5 minute epoxy was developed for folks with little patience, not because it is a better bonding agent.
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orvet
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Re: Advice needed

Post by orvet »

Gunsil,
The person I got the information from on the 5 Minute Epoxy was Tracy Mickely, custom knifemaker and owner of USA Knife Makers Supply.

USA Knife Makers Supply sells the 5 minute epoxy, although it is privately branded for them as well as the 15 minute and 30 minute epoxies. Tracy told me that it was a private label of an epoxy made for golf shafts. I used the 5 minute epoxy from USA Knife Makers Supply but that I thought available at a number of other sources, other knife makers supply companies and local hobby shop. Someday making supply companies have it private labeled for them, I suppose they have to buy a volume that the feasible, but most of what I buy is branded Bob Smith industries. From my experience it performs precisely the same no matter which company name is on the label.

I have been using the 5 minute, 15 minute, and 30 minute epoxies for about 11 or 12 years. In that length of time I have had a couple failures, both as a result of improper surface preparation. I have pretty much given up using anything but the 5 minute because the other two go bad before I can use them up and there is no appreciable difference in performance on a knife. I think for the purpose knife making there is little appreciable difference between the 5 minute and the 30 minute epoxy other than the time it takes to set up and cure.

I understand the a fishing pole must be flexible, and the finish must be flexible as well. I have to rebuild several fishing rods and they were all far more flexible than any knife I ever built! :lol:
Where flexibility comes into play with a knife are the shearing forces created when someone dropped a knife handle on a hard surface. Without a little bit of flexibility in the epoxy the shearing forces created by the sharp blow can cause the epoxy to fail. The 5 minute epoxy has a little more flex to it in that situation than the 30 epoxy does.

Many years ago Tracy Mickley and Steve Sando, also a custom knife maker, did a very extensive series of tests on adhesives that were on the market then, (see link below). I know their research really blew a lot of people’s preconceived ideas about adhesives with the testing and documenting they did. The research is posted in a 19 page long topic on The Knife Network forum. It is well worth the time read. As you read through the topic you will see where a number of knife makers actually changed their go to adhesive based on the research and the with the type of construction of their knives.

I don’t know of anyone in the knife making community who have done as much testing research of adhesives as Tracy and Steve.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showt ... light=glue
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Gunsil
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Re: Advice needed

Post by Gunsil »

15 and 30 minute epoxies are still fast cure epoxies. The strongest, least susceptible to water softening, and least brittle are the 24 hour epoxies, end of story. Use what you like but don't say the fast cures are better for anything, the slow cure ones outperform them in every category except speed of setting.
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just bob
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Re: Advice needed

Post by just bob »

Not directly related to the OP but I thought I would throw this in. I bought a new pair of shoes from Land's End. They were China made but not super cheap ones. Within a month the rubber sole was coming loose and was going to come completely off. I couldn't send them back because I had worn them quite a bit and went on ebay to order some type of glue to repair them with. Then I happened to think that I had followed Dale's advice and ordered 2 of the Bob Smith's epoxy type of glue. I mixed it up and used a playing card to get it in between the sole and the shoe, then used rubber bands to hold things in place. I waited a day and I swear the shoes are better than new. There isn't a hint of the sole coming back loose. I guess the morale is if you order some of the epoxy - order 2 because you will find a use for it. Thanks Dale !
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FRJ
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Re: Advice needed

Post by FRJ »

Barry, those knives look like they have a lot of potential. The handles on a few of them look pretty good.
What will you haft them with and how will you process the blades?
Joe
Berryb
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Re: Advice needed

Post by Berryb »

I was gonna try pecan with brass rivets. I was given a couple of 3"x 4" x 4' pecan planks a while ago. It seems like a dense fine grained wood and should polish up pretty nice. Thanks for the responses and the good thoughts.
Bruce
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philco
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Re: Advice needed

Post by philco »

Bruce best wishes for what ever it is that's going to have you laid up for a while. Please post some "after" shots of those knives whenever you can.
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