Cleaning and Flipping on our favorite Auction Site

[RalphAlsip]

This post is a tale of 2 listings on a knife collector's favorite auction site.

This listing ended on January 26, 2019 with a buy it now of $450. https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Case-Bros ... _cvip=true

On March 14, 2019 this listing appeared with a buy it now of $4,000 with an option to make an offer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/254162475529?u ... fresh=true

You will notice that both listings are for the same knife a Case Bros Springville NY (rare mark) 1294 X. The handles are walnut which is why I am saying the first number in the pattern number is a "1" (a "6" might also be appropriate).

The description on the new listing says "Very rare very hard to find mint condition great snap Full blades". The only parts of the description I would question are the "mint condition" and "Full blades" parts. During the time between the end of the first listing and the post of the second listing the knife has been refurbished or as some would say "cleaned". Part of the cleaning involved removing dirt. Another part of the cleaning involved reshaping the main spear blade. Before and after comparison pictures are posted below.

The camera angles are different so the length comparison of the main spear blade may not be accurate, however there was blade loss to begin with and the blade has been reshaped somewhat to disguise the evidence of blade loss from sharpening. The camera flash interferes with ability see the blades clearly. The secondary pen blade appeared to be reasonably full to begin with and doesn't seem to show any alterations.

It would be very surprising if this knife sells for anything close to $4,000. My opinion is that behavior like this does not benefit the knife collecting hobby. I wouldn't begrudge anyone the right to make a fair profit.

[LongBlade]

Interesting Jerry ... Do you think they added to the XX on the blade or did the buffer bring out more of it? Personally the 2nd seller no doubt wrecked the knife in my opinion... even without your post and description that knife no doubt looks aggressively cleaned... Begrudge someone to make a profit in an honest way is ok by me - but I truly frown upon the seller or similar sellers who buff and reshape nice old knives with dishonest intentions to sell... jmo

[KleenCut61]

Looks Ruined IMO Jerry . You Never Ever Change the Blade Geometry When Cleaning a Knife ,, P*SS POOR Attempt if there ever was one ::barf::K.C.

[LongBlade]

Interesting Jerry ... Do you think they added to the XX on the blade or did the buffer bring out more of it? Personally the 2nd seller no doubt wrecked the knife in my opinion... even without your post and description that knife no doubt looks aggressively cleaned... In terms of "begrudging" someone to make a profit - well that is one's right to make a profit if they desire to flip but importantly in an honest way - I truly frown upon the seller or similar sellers who buff and reshape nice old knives with dishonest intentions to sell... jmo

Note edited above to make sure it was interpreted right regarding flipping - I think I was typing out of synch with my thought process ...

[RalphAlsip]

Do you think they added to the XX on the blade or did the buffer bring out more of it?

Lee, I don't think the "XX" etched on the blade has been altered in any significant way. It does appear to be, but I think that is an artifact of photography (flash, angle, etc.). In the picture below, the original "XX" is in the center and 2 different images of the cleaned "XX" are on either side. I don't see much difference in the before and after in these close ups. In addition to preferring the original rendition of the knife, I prefer the original photos, too.

[LongBlade]

Thanks Jerry .. Definitely the same in each photo... No doubt the first auction the knife looked like an HOK Case and was no doubt more appealing in my eyes as well... Curious if the first sale price at auction was considered within the market range for Case collectors ? - And just curious if the buffed knife was "truly" mint & original if it would be in the $4K range? I really don't follow Case in detail so just curious but I do know the old ones can be pretty valuable..

[kootenay joe]

Very good post here. The ability to use a computer program to compare blades side by side as well as add drawn lines, really allows us to make informed comparisons.
Jerry is our AAPK Knife Photo Guru and we are the beneficiaries of his skill.
kj

[gsmith7158]

I agree wholeheartedly about the butchering of a fine old knife in order to deceive someone for a big profit. Someone who knows Case Bros. Knives probably won't be fooled by that one so as is usually the case a novice or a newcomer to collecting will learn a hard lesson. I always like to see these threads because it gives me a name not to buy from.
Lee the $450 initially on that knife was probably justified because it is a rare knife pattern. One in good condition wood bring 4 to 5 times that. I think the Case Bros Cutlery Co. Knives have a certain mystique that make them a little more desirable. JMO of course but the double XX really gets my motor running!

[Mumbleypeg]

I’m left wondering why the blade was re-profiled? Doesn’t appear to me that there was anything wrong with it. Buffing it was bad enough but to cut it down is criminal!

Ken

[Duffer]

Ken that was exactly what I was wondering! That is one thing I am always attempting to evaluate on any offering. Natural blade loss over time is one thing but to blatantly reprofile and intentionally reduce blade length this aggressively is crazy! And to what end? He effectively destroyed any real collector value on this Case Bros. Jerry, great pictorial commentary and evaluation

[RalphAlsip]

This is a reminder that the length comparison in the pictures may not be accurate. In the before pictures the knife is completely vertical. In the after pictures the knife is tilted back a few degrees. The blade height is unquestionably less because the curvature on the blade edge due to sharpening has been removed.

The blade is probably at least a little short, but because the photos are on a different plane the difference in length my be an optical illusion.

This could be another optical illusion due to flash, but it is confounding that the blade would have more scratches AFTER it has been polished.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Original condition, with scratches, scuffs, patina, pitting etc. is always, always, always preferable to buffing the ever loving crap out of it. Used knives just don't look right when they're all shined up!

[tongueriver]

This be reasons one and two that I don't have anything to do with old CASE knives. And reason three of course is the prices asked.

[btrwtr]

Same knife and the buyer of the first knife with now 2280 feedback and the seller of the second knife also with 2280 feedback are no doubt one in the same.

This eBay seller is one that I readily recognize as someone that has no problem selling reworked, heavily cleaned, re-handled and otherwise altered knives with no mention of such. No surprise that he would buy a knife, alter it, call it mint and list it at an excessively high price. His descriptions are brief and his definition of mint can be seen in the OP listing.

[wlf]

Looks sold. People buy these or they wouldn’t use these practices. Apparently for a lot of money.

I despise cleaning( not dirt and rust), it removes history of the knife.

[eveled]

This be reasons one and two that I don't have anything to do with old CASE knives. And reason three of course is the prices asked.

I have to agree. I just can’t afford the education required to collect old Case knives. I have a couple users I bought new or cheap. That is enough for me.

[RalphAlsip]

As near as I can tell, the knife seems to have sold for approximately $1,900.

[Dinadan]

I agree with those that say the knife was better before the aggressive cleaning. But honestly, if I thought that a cleaning like that would add over a thousand dollars to a knife that I was going to quickly flip ... it would be cleaned! I do not sell knives, so the discussion is a bit academic for me. But when it come to the written description, saying that the knife is Mint is clearly misleading, which tends to make everything about the vendor's offerings suspect.