Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929

[JAMESC41001]

Here is an interesting Honk Falls Knife. I did not know quite what to make of this when I first saw it. Composite handles on a shadow pattern pen knife. Seemed a bit off. I looked back in Stidam’s book on Napanoch Knife, almost all honks match a Nap pattern, and sure enough it is listed in there. My understanding is that the first composite handle material was Bakelite?? Not sure if that is correct but Bakelite was patented in1909. The Nap Knives would have been made before 1919 so these must have been early examples. I have not seen a Napanoch made with these handles but here is a Honk Falls. Any info on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

[Miller Bro's]

Celluloid pre dates Bakelite by about 50 years or so. I would say those handles are celluloid.

Very nice knife!

[JAMESC41001]

Thanks for the reply. For some reason I was not thinking cell. Makes sense though. Guess I’m use to seeing fancy patterns with cell. Glad I asked.

[KAW]

Ken... I have a Honk you may be interested in. Let me know.
Jay

Jay I attempted to send you a PM yesterday but it is just sitting in my outbox as well as sending a email via AAPK.
I'm very much interested in the knife. Please contact me at kaw569@yahoo.com.

[JAMESC41001]

Ken, I responded to the PM. Let me know
Jay

[JAMESC41001]

This is an interesting knife because of the double pull. Napanoch used this feature on their elephant toes. This blade looks to have been shaped up. I think it is the only honk I have that’s been worked on(I think) but it is a a unique pattern and I’m pretty happy to have It regardless.

[BWT]

Two very nice knives James, you should be happy to own either one Definitely is interesting having two nail pulls!

[wlf]

Rare stamps on great patterns

[JAMESC41001]

Thanks guys. As you can see I’m a little into honk falls. Appreciate the comments. I’ve been researching jigged bone in an attempt to identify the various bone used by honk falls and my brain is starting to hurt.

[danno50]

Two nice ones, James! Interesting sleeveboard with double pulls. I wouldn't call it "worked on", it is just worn from use and sharpening.

[LongBlade]

Really nice Honk Knives Jay ... I find the jumbo sleeveboards really appealing and no doubt a handful of knife - jumbo Whittlers are also very cool!! I’ve seen the double pulls on alot of elephant toe nails like your second jigged bone knife but have also seen them on certain Hunter patterns but can’t remember which maker patterns showed them - Very unusual at least to me is a knife that FRJ (Joe) posted in the American Shear and Knife Co thread - It is an American Shear and Knife Co Whittler with double pulls on the master blade and it is not a jumbo pattern or blade either...

[JAMESC41001]

Lee, I recently seen a hunter with double pulls also. For some reason I can’t find the pic but it resembled a Napanoch blade too me. There is an Ulster toenail up for auction with double pulls. This is pretty interesting as there are some real links to Ulster from Honk Falls. I will try and look for the knife you are referring too.

[knifegnome]

Hi Jay, I have a couple of bone handled knives and a large pearl jack,I will try to get some pictures up for you.I am also interested in the history of Honk Falls and have information on the company.I will try to find it. Scott

[KAW]

This one is pretty interesting as there are some real links to Ulster from Honk Falls.

I was beginning to wonder that myself. No doubt there were cutlers that changed employment from one company to the other (at least in the 1920's anyway).

I have a Dwight Devine Ulster split back whittler (which I believe to be contemporary with Honk Falls era) with double pulls on the main blade altho I have my doubts about if it was orginally intended to be made that way. There is an indent made in the handle for the long pull near the tang, but one would end up ripping off their fingernail before ever getting the blade open with such a strong double spring under that blade! Therefore they have to add a nailnick "higher" up on the blade in order to get it open as the long pull is useless. At 3 1/2", I would not consider this a jumbo whittler either.



Can you open the blade on the sleeveboard using the long pull? BTW Jay that is an unusual but mighty fine lookin' folder you have there.

[danno50]

I like that whittler, Ken! To me both pulls on the master blade look factory original?

[JAMESC41001]

Ken, great knife! I agree with Dan looks factory to me also. Seems like this is common for Ulster, at least at that time. A quick search and I found these two pictured here. Napanoch Knife was founded by (among others) the two Carmen brothers. They both came from Ulster knife pretty much right at the beginning. They were trained by Dwight Divine and would have been under the supervision of William Booth. Mr Booth has been credited with implementing the departmental system of knife making. He stayed with Ulster until 1923. The Carmen’s helped start Napanoch in 1900. This is around the same time Ulster changed to Dwight Divine and son. Napanoch clearly set up with this departmental structure. When the Honk Falls power house went on line in 1898 Napanoch Knife was listed as one of their first customers. Thing to remember is Napanoch and Ellenville are very close to each other. People from Napanoch would use the Bank and post office in Ellenville for example. All the buisnesses and families were all connected some how. So much so it’s hard to tell the story without drifting far a field. Kinda like now. Point is I’m sure other manufacturers used double pulls but there was definitely a carry over from Ulster to Napanoch with this technique.

[KAW]

Just to clarify... I'm not doubting the knife was factory made with both pulls... but why would one create a long pull that would not open the blade and shape an indent in the handle to access that pull if it won't function as such? I'm thinking that only after discovering the long pull could not be used to open the blade did the cutler at the factory place the nailnick in the blade.

Jay... I was surprised when I went back through this thread that you did not post a photo of the Honk Fall pattern you sold to me. So if you don't mind, as the new proud owner thanks to you, I'm posting my first Honk Falls.



Did they use a numbering code to identify their patterns?

[JAMESC41001]

Very nice Ken. Happy it’s in good hands. It’s good to see it posted here. Being able to trade information and learn from people like yourself is awesome. I was going through a NYK catalog today and I found a knife that resembles your Ulster. I’ll take a pic for you. I really think it is as intended and not an afterthought.

[JAMESC41001]

Did they use a numbering code to identify their patterns?[/quote]
Ken, I have not seen any pattern codes. Then again I have not seen a catalog, a box, a sale sheet, no real advertising to speak of. No sales receipt or anything like that. There is a small add in the 1921 cutlery journal. And I do have a warranty sheet that I believe went out with the knives. Most Honks that I’ve seen are based on Napanoch patterns that can be seen in Rhett Stidams guide. It would appear that the knives at least initially were made from existing parts. I can’t confirm that but if you look at the Nap punches that Winchester used for example they have the same patent markings on them as do the punches in the Honk tool kits I’ve observed. This is not really a stretch to believe. When Rhett Stidam left Napanoch he took a pile of parts that were left from the Honk factory. I don’t believe John Cushner came back to an empty factory when he returned from Winchester. Actually I don’t believe he ever intended to stay in Connecticut long. He was a Napanoch man to the core. He never sold his house. His father built that house. His daughters thought school in a school house you could see outside their window. You would think it’s hard to write a guide with so little of the typical information but actually there is a ton of information. The hardest part is to stay away from supposition an just stick to factual info. Readers will draw there own conclusions. It is a great story. A little different then what’s been done by others I hope.

[wlf]

This one is pretty interesting as there are some real links to Ulster from Honk Falls.

I was beginning to wonder that myself. No doubt there were cutlers that changed employment from one company to the other (at least in the 1920's anyway.

I'm sure Empire's design man or someone with intimate knowledge pretty much copied the Empire Farmers jack for Schrade, as these are the only examples out of the many ,many I have observed with their design . The difference being the length that allows the pivot pin on the pruning blade to be placed outside the rat tail in the large bolster.

[JAMESC41001]

That is interesting. Empire made great knives. I just sold my Schrade farmers jack. It was made well with great snap. You can probably guess what I traded it for. I never cared for the pivot pins being in the indent like that. Seem like they don’t sit still in there very well.

[JAMESC41001]

Honk Falls made ink erasers. Napanoch had made these also. These are the only ones made with an HFK Co.over Napanoch tang stamp that I’ve seen. Although the one looks done by hand which is curious?

[wlf]

Nice catch Jay.

[LongBlade]

Nice ink eraser Jay ... Very cool stamp being over the Napanoch - nice historical connection in the stamp ...

[JAMESC41001]

Sorry guys I should have clarified, these two aren’t mine. I’m on the hunt for one for a while. It was cool being able to handle and photograph one. So close but yet so far. Honk used Napanoch on their stamps. The odd part is the HFK Co. part. That’s unique to these. My guess is the one with the hand written tang was left over stock they had and did not have a tang stamp for it yet(if ever). From my experience everyone is always waiting on tang stamps. I try not to post pics from the internet that I have not personally taken but finding one of these is hard, finding two for comparison is a neat trick.