America's "Little Sheffield"
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Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
KAW, those are superlative looking knives. Congratulations.
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Nice haul Ken and nice scores for your collection ...
Nice Shapleigh Jack Jim .. Classic big ol' jack and nice clip blade ...
Nice Shapleigh Jack Jim .. Classic big ol' jack and nice clip blade ...
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Lee
Lee
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Thanks all for the kind comments...
As promised, here's some more detailed photos of the heap of knives I obtained at the Lehigh Valley Knife show starting with the New York Knife Co. pieces. The group of three are"
Pattern №2772 − a 3⅛" Gentleman’s Pen Equal End including a file blade, embossed aluminum bolsters, Mother of Pearl handles.
I found this one on page 937 of the a reprinted of the NYKC section of the 1908 Biddle Hardware Co., Phila. catalog.
Pattern №2214 − 3½" two blade Jack (clip & pen) with jigged bone handles.
Pattern №2421 − 3¼" two blade Jack (spear & pen) with wooden handles. (What kind of wood?)
The last two patterns are stamped on the pile side of the main blades, however they were not listed in the 1908 catalog. So I'm making the assumption that they are later patterns.
Close-up of the 2772:
(Unfortunately the tip of the pen blade is broken off, but I got it for the embossed bolsters & the MoP handles are really nice, altho they didn't show up all that well in the photo.)
Close-up of the 2214:
Since I've already posted photos of the 2421 in an earlier reply to Bill on the previous page, I won't repeat posting them here.
As promised, here's some more detailed photos of the heap of knives I obtained at the Lehigh Valley Knife show starting with the New York Knife Co. pieces. The group of three are"
Pattern №2772 − a 3⅛" Gentleman’s Pen Equal End including a file blade, embossed aluminum bolsters, Mother of Pearl handles.
I found this one on page 937 of the a reprinted of the NYKC section of the 1908 Biddle Hardware Co., Phila. catalog.
Pattern №2214 − 3½" two blade Jack (clip & pen) with jigged bone handles.
Pattern №2421 − 3¼" two blade Jack (spear & pen) with wooden handles. (What kind of wood?)
The last two patterns are stamped on the pile side of the main blades, however they were not listed in the 1908 catalog. So I'm making the assumption that they are later patterns.
Close-up of the 2772:
(Unfortunately the tip of the pen blade is broken off, but I got it for the embossed bolsters & the MoP handles are really nice, altho they didn't show up all that well in the photo.)
Close-up of the 2214:
Since I've already posted photos of the 2421 in an earlier reply to Bill on the previous page, I won't repeat posting them here.
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
I'm really proud about this find... Its my first lobster & I really like this bone version.
It truly is the "classiest" knife in my collection!
a Schrade Cut. Co. 3" Sleeveboard Lobster; Pattern №8683T with 3 blades (pen-quill-file); bone stag, N/S tip bolsters & milled liners.
as listed in the 1926 catalog:
It truly is the "classiest" knife in my collection!
a Schrade Cut. Co. 3" Sleeveboard Lobster; Pattern №8683T with 3 blades (pen-quill-file); bone stag, N/S tip bolsters & milled liners.
as listed in the 1926 catalog:
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
...another shameless bump of my thread...
a couple more folders that I picked up at the Lehigh Valley fall show...
this time the Ulster's...
first the older 3" gentleman’s equal end pen knife with embossed aluminum bolsters & jig bone handles.
It is my understanding that these were considered higher end, more expensive knives then those made with nickel silver bolsters.
...then a mid-50's Baer era Ulster pattern № 55G 3¼" stockman with "Bone Stag" handle & still has the blade etch.
a couple more folders that I picked up at the Lehigh Valley fall show...
this time the Ulster's...
first the older 3" gentleman’s equal end pen knife with embossed aluminum bolsters & jig bone handles.
It is my understanding that these were considered higher end, more expensive knives then those made with nickel silver bolsters.
...then a mid-50's Baer era Ulster pattern № 55G 3¼" stockman with "Bone Stag" handle & still has the blade etch.
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
That Ulster certainly is a nice old example of pick bone.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Thanks Lyle for the correction...
I guess this means it has some age to it?... older than jigged bone?
I guess this means it has some age to it?... older than jigged bone?
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Nice knives, Ken.
I agree with Lyle. The Ulster pen with those fabulous aluminum bolsters has that great old pick bone look.
I agree with Lyle. The Ulster pen with those fabulous aluminum bolsters has that great old pick bone look.
Joe
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Ken - Nice Ulster . . Pick bone and aluminum bolsters on that Ulster - sweet!!! I quite like aluminum bolsters and the engraved patterns... nice score!!
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Lee
Lee
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Thanks Joe & Lee.
With the kind help of the folks over on the Keen Kutter thread... it was verified that these two do belong here as well...
A 3¼" sleeveboard pen, №K0678¾, produced between 1914−20 by Walden Knife Co. with jig bone & N/S rat tail bolsters...
Tang stamp pic... i apologize for the distorted color in attempting to bring out the stamp...
A 3¾" Coke bottle jack, №K2718¾, with jig bone handle; Federal shield; brass liners & nickel−silver double grooved bolsters (is there a term for this type of bolster?)
Produced between 1905−29 by either Walden or Winchester, but as msteele6 put it...
With the kind help of the folks over on the Keen Kutter thread... it was verified that these two do belong here as well...
A 3¼" sleeveboard pen, №K0678¾, produced between 1914−20 by Walden Knife Co. with jig bone & N/S rat tail bolsters...
Tang stamp pic... i apologize for the distorted color in attempting to bring out the stamp...
A 3¾" Coke bottle jack, №K2718¾, with jig bone handle; Federal shield; brass liners & nickel−silver double grooved bolsters (is there a term for this type of bolster?)
Produced between 1905−29 by either Walden or Winchester, but as msteele6 put it...
msteele6 wrote:...it might have been produced at the Winchester plant after the acquisition of Walden, still probably a Walden pattern produced on Walden equipment by Walden workers primarily.
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Picked this up at a flea market back during the first weekend of October... but only got around to photographing it today.
Pretty excited to get this one tho... an Ulster hawkbill with a still decently shaped blade (unlike the 1010 I posted earlier in this thread).
I believe this one is much older than the 1010 as well... at least it has that look... at 3¾"... it slightly smaller than the 1010 and has a more pronounce curve to the handle. Feels good in the hand... great snap... absolutely no wobble... just love the bolster... in great shape for its age... would be great if it could be determined if it was made pre-1900?!
Pretty excited to get this one tho... an Ulster hawkbill with a still decently shaped blade (unlike the 1010 I posted earlier in this thread).
I believe this one is much older than the 1010 as well... at least it has that look... at 3¾"... it slightly smaller than the 1010 and has a more pronounce curve to the handle. Feels good in the hand... great snap... absolutely no wobble... just love the bolster... in great shape for its age... would be great if it could be determined if it was made pre-1900?!
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Nice Ulster hawkbill Ken ... a knife pattern that I like for sure...
Which reminds me - I have one Walden Knife Co knife to contribute to this thread - also a hawkbill... What I really like about it are the handles - the cocobolo has almost a tiger striped appearance ... The snap on the blade is no doubt bear trap - I had heard Walden made some super strong springs...
Which reminds me - I have one Walden Knife Co knife to contribute to this thread - also a hawkbill... What I really like about it are the handles - the cocobolo has almost a tiger striped appearance ... The snap on the blade is no doubt bear trap - I had heard Walden made some super strong springs...
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Lee
Lee
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Beautiful knives, Ken and Lee. Yeah, Lee, those handles are pretty nice.
Ken, the sleeveboard and the jack are really nice.
I don't know when I have seen the line definition between the two groves as on the jack.
That's pretty cool and so well done.
Ken, the sleeveboard and the jack are really nice.
I don't know when I have seen the line definition between the two groves as on the jack.
That's pretty cool and so well done.
Joe
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Thanks Joe ...
Ken - the blades on your hawkbill do look pretty good - but something to keep in mind - not all hawkbill blades had a significant bill to the blade (i.e. curved downward tip) - some companies made them much more robust at the tip than others... I only learned that by seeing those with less use than others - and that is not easy with hawkbills as it was a hardworking knife and not bought to stick in the drawer long ago ...
Note as post edit - Actually the best way to see the difference in hawkbill blades among makers is to see them in old catalog cuts - that indeed is the best way to compare across them - the only problem is finding the old catalog cuts of them ...
Ken - the blades on your hawkbill do look pretty good - but something to keep in mind - not all hawkbill blades had a significant bill to the blade (i.e. curved downward tip) - some companies made them much more robust at the tip than others... I only learned that by seeing those with less use than others - and that is not easy with hawkbills as it was a hardworking knife and not bought to stick in the drawer long ago ...
Note as post edit - Actually the best way to see the difference in hawkbill blades among makers is to see them in old catalog cuts - that indeed is the best way to compare across them - the only problem is finding the old catalog cuts of them ...
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Lee
Lee
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Thanks Joe Its especially nice to hear coming from a avid collector like you...FRJ wrote:Ken, the sleeveboard and the jack are really nice.
Lee... that's a very nice beefy Walden. I, too, really do like the way the grain shows in the handle.
My largest Walden is a boy's knife with no snap to it at all...
Yea... a few months back I post my Ulster 1010 (seen on this thread on page 11) on either the hawkbill or rope knife thead (I do't remember which one now) as I was hoping to determine which it was suppose to be originally. The debate went on for quite a while until Dimitri posted his Ulster 1010 with a very obvious pronounced "bill". That pretty much ended the debate for me (alto some others were still not so convinced). Personally, I was hoping it was suppose to be a rope knife as I thought the blade looked pretty cool for that purpose. Perhaps even the previous owner reground the blade with that intent?LongBlade wrote:Ken - the blades on your hawkbill do look pretty good - but something to keep in mind - not all hawkbill blades had a significant bill to the blade (i.e. curved downward tip) - some companies made them much more robust at the tip than others... I only learned that by seeing those with less use than others - and that is not easy with hawkbills as it was a hardworking knife and not bought to stick in the drawer long ago ...
Note as post edit - Actually the best way to see the difference in hawkbill blades among makers is to see them in old catalog cuts - that indeed is the best way to compare across them - the only problem is finding the old catalog cuts of them ...
Anyway... turns out to be a good segue for my next photo...
two Schrade Walden №163 rope knives I also picked up at the same flea market...
the one marked for Independent Cordage Co. was never carried or used. Dealer kept it in its original plastic bag... but I believe it to be a newer version of the other used example which has a more refined handle & the pattern № stamped on the pile side of the blade.
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Nice knives Lee and Ken.
As Lee was saying. I've noticed that spear and pruning blades can fool most knife collectors as to the extent of their fullness. Pruning blades even more so ,as looking down on them doesn't show the fullness as it does with the length on a spear blade.
I always thought something was up with this knife other than the obvious.It's bee a while since I examined it .I need to re look.
As Lee was saying. I've noticed that spear and pruning blades can fool most knife collectors as to the extent of their fullness. Pruning blades even more so ,as looking down on them doesn't show the fullness as it does with the length on a spear blade.
I always thought something was up with this knife other than the obvious.It's bee a while since I examined it .I need to re look.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Nice Ulster FJ Lyle ... I guess the obvious is the mark vs pile side bone but both look original to the knife - the pocket worn bone jigging looks the same... Just another good example of mark vs pile side handle covers that differ and that was certainly not just an Ulster attribute - Blades look decent too ....
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Lee
Lee
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Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
You got it Dimitri. Actually, in hand the pruning blade seems huge too, compared to other Ulster farmers jacks.
The handles are pick bone worn smooth,so it is very old. I like the handles Lee.
The handles are pick bone worn smooth,so it is very old. I like the handles Lee.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Great knives picked up lately, Ken! I really like that Cut Co lobster!
Very nice Walden pruner, Lee!
Nice FJ, Lyle! I missed the obvious, needed Dimitri to point it out.
Very nice Walden pruner, Lee!
Nice FJ, Lyle! I missed the obvious, needed Dimitri to point it out.
Dan
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Thanks Dan... good to see you back in the fray...
Lyle that is truly a relic in every sense of the word!!! Those knives that just scream "history" really appeal to me.
I also wonder if that typo on the tang stamp was the doing of a new apprentice? Hard to believe that an experienced cutler would make that mistake.
Lyle that is truly a relic in every sense of the word!!! Those knives that just scream "history" really appeal to me.
I also wonder if that typo on the tang stamp was the doing of a new apprentice? Hard to believe that an experienced cutler would make that mistake.
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Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/research-coll ... ice-orange
Here is a great link that I found very informative. Check it out!
Here is a great link that I found very informative. Check it out!
Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
That is one cool link Jay ... interesting read & info uncovered there - good find ... almost reminds me of the steamboat Arabia and how it sunk in the Mississippi in the 1856 with a ton of knives from many different makers - they salvaged the Arabia in 1987 and though the knives were mostly damaged many were not that bad considering 132 years under the water - however in the ocean those knives are probably gone for good unless they were in some super tight containers!! That is one exhibit I would like to see in Kansas City - The Arabia Steamboat Museum ...
Keep on sleuthing Jay - great stuff ..
Keep on sleuthing Jay - great stuff ..
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Lee
Lee
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Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
Great history, copied it for posterity.
10,000 dozen that's 120,000 knives!! Made in a few weeks with the help of Schrade and N.Y Knife Co..
News and Event Updates from the Office of the Orange County Historian
May 3, 2017
Walden Knives Sink With The Lusitania
May 7, 1915
by Mary Ellen Matise, Village of Walden Historian
May 7, 2015, the press reminded us, was the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the Cunard Lines' Lusitania off the coast of Ireland; the ship, its crew and almost 2000 passengers the victim of a German U-boat torpedo attack. As a lead up to the anniversary, the May 3rd edition of the Middletown TH-Record printed a review of the book, "Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania" by Erik Larson. The reviewer states that Larson 'puts us on the deck of the famous ship that fateful day.' But what the reviewer and the author don't tell us is that below that deck, in the cargo hold, is a story very close to home and one that had a direct impact on Orange County, and on the Village of Walden.
One hundred years ago on May 7, 1915, the Middletown Times-Press carried the following headline:
A front page article described the knife order. '10,000 dozen knives, the result of weeks of work on the part of day and night shifts at the Walden Knife Works, went down with the big steam ship. The knives comprised the largest shipment yet made by the Walden concern as a portion of an order of a million knives received from the English government.'
'Fortunately the Walden concern received payment in full for the knives before the liner left port and the Orange county manufacturing concern will suffer no financial loss as the result of the sinking of the vessel.'
'...The factory has been taxed to its utmost capacity and the New York Knife Company and Schrade Company plants in Walden have been called into service to help fill the order.'
'The sinking of the Lusitania with the large shipment made last week by the concern will probably mean an additional order and the result will be an added benefit to the people of Walden.'
'The fact that all of the English cutlery concerns are at present engaged in the manufacture of ammunition was responsible for the orders for knives placed in this country. The Walden Works was found to be in a position to fill orders promptly and as a result was given a large share of the orders placed in the United States. The order was received through the English consul in New York...'
'The shipment lost on the Lusitania represents in cash an order of about $50,000. The knives would retail, if sold in this country, at about a half dollar apiece.'
'The knives, as shown in the illustration, are designed entirely for the use of the English soldiers and marines. The long steel blade is intended for general use. The short blade has an attachment by which it may be used as a can-opener and for other purposes while the steel prong called a Marlin spike, is intended for use in splicing ropes. The spike, however, finds many other useful purposes and the knife forms a tool probably of great value to the men in the trenches and on board the ships of the King.'
Earlier that year, the February 19, 1915 edition of the Orange County Times Press ran an article announcing the receipt of the large knife order by the Walden Knife Works.
The loss of the 10,000 dozen knives on the Lusitania was not the end of the story. Evidently, the knives were reordered by the English government and did become effective tools in the hands of the British soldiers according to the following 1916 article in the local press in which the Walden Knife Works claims to have produced 1,000,000 knives of this design during 1915.
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Re: America's "Little Sheffield"
It is interesting to note George Schrade was in Germany at the time. His business there was confiscated and he was booted out of the country.