Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

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Jtx
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Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

Here is a nice old knife that I have had for a while and I wanted to share it with you. It is a two blade congress that is over 100 years old. It is marked Jackson/Fremont O. on the master blade. Goins places this company from 1900 to 1914. It is about 4 1/8" closed, has half stops on both blades and the snap on both blades is very strong. The handle is jigged composite (not sure of the material) which has pulled away from the bolsters slightly. It has a single back spring and crimped bolsters. It is in excellent condition for a 100 year old knife.

I also have an invoice from this company dated March 31, 1900 and I have included a photo of it. There are some knives near the bottom of the invoice... look at the prices per half dozen.
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Miller Bro's
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Miller Bro's »

Nice knife and paperwork, rare brand ::tu::

I think I have a box the knives came in.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

Thanks Miller Bro's.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by thefarside »

Great old knife, thanks for showing it.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by FRJ »

Great post, Jtx. I really like your knife and the paper work.
Nice size on that Congress. ::tu::
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

Thanks thefarside and FRJ.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by peanut740 »

Fine knife Jtx. ::tu::
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Beechtree »

Great Old Knife! I have seen a picture of the cutlers in front of their shop, I will try to figure out where and post an image of it.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

Thanks peanut740 and Beechtree. Beechtree, I would like to see that picture if you can find it.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by btrwtr »

Not trying to rain on a parade but I would expect this knife to have bone handles and to be stamped on both blades. I don't recall ever seeing a Jackson stamped knife with black plastic handles before. It looks way too much like a much newer Camillus knife frame to me.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

btrwtr you may be right about this knife, I don't really know. I bought it about 30 years ago from an old man and it was not expensive. The iron bolsters and the long pull on the master sure give it the same feel as my other older knives.

Looking in my knife books, I see a Camillus two blade congress, but it is 3 7/16" with bone handles. I also see a Camillus four blade that is 4 1/8" with bone handles... but my knife is a two blade 4 1/8" and the handles are not bone. They look like a hard rubber material.

btrwtr, I am trying to learn from your post, not argue with you. Help me understand your observations. Are you saying someone took a four blade 4 1/8" Camillus apart and reworked it into two blade knife using a Jackson blade?

Are the bolsters on your Camillus nickel silver or iron? Is your knife 3 7/16" or 4 1/8"?

Why should it have bone handles? Most of the old factories used bone, rubber, celluloid, stag, ivory and wood.

Again, I am never too old to learn something, so please help me.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by btrwtr »

I'm just saying that the knife does not strike me as being an old pre 1920 knife. My Goins' book says c. 1893-1904 and indicates that shortly after 1904 pocketknife production ended at the Jackson factory. My first impression of the knife was that it looks very much like a Camillus frame and handles. I would expect a knife of this age to have both of the blades stamped. Jackson knives are very scarce to say the least and the few I have seen have had mother of pearl, bone or wooden handles. I think these particular hard rubber handles are unusual for a turn of the century knife. The pins on the knife appear to be spun and not peened. 1904 might be a little early to see spun pins on a pocketknife.

I also note that the back handle center pin looks like it has had some filing done that also has scarred the handle. Not sure what is going on but it does indicate that there may have been some work done on the knife.

The master blade and stamp look good to me. Not having much to compare the knife to makes it hard to determine what might be normal for this type of knife and manufacturer. Everyone else seems to like the knife and I've been wrong more than once before.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey GUYS, If you dont mind if I chime in on this knife as I have a Jackson knife right now to post.

One of the hardest things to do Honestly, Is tell someone that WE think the knife is NOT Right,,It hurts our feelings more so than the owners, At least it does for me. I concur with EVERYTHING that Mr. Wayne has pointed out.

These JACKSON knives are VERY OLD and therefore should carry with them the "Norm" for the Era. May I add some "norm" when it comes to my Particular knife by Jackson. 1st as Wayne points out,,Both blades stamped is Rule#1 for me. Pattern is a good indication many times((and certainly true with my knife)).

My knife is BIG FAT & THICK/ROUNDISH,,which is a Norm((comparing next to my 70's era 3 7/8 stockman below in the pics)).
I know my pictures suck,,but the pins on my knife are HAMMERED,,kind a flat like nail heads. My center pin is STEEL and the outer pins are brass which is another "norm" for 100yr old knives. The long pull blade is a clue along with the big Propeller shield,,Nice features to me. And who can OVERLOOK The Early Wrap around backspring((I like to see this on really old knives)). Them are just some thoughts to think about when viewing antique knives at least I do.
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Mark
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by peanut740 »

Mark,I would think the blades should be polished.I would consider that a premium pattern and therefore a premium finish. ::shrug::
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

Thanks for your comments about my knife. You should never feel bad about stating your opinion on a subject.

I do feel that we should be cautious when declaring what was the "norm" a hundred years ago. This knife manufacturer"s main production was razors and shears. So, whether they stamped all blades or just the master blade would be speculation without some documentation from this company.

As I have said earlier, I don't really know the truth about my knife... we all have opinions.

Thanks for posting pictures of your knife. I looked closely at the tang stamps on the blades and now have some observations. The letters in Jackson don't have serifs on them. My knife does have serifs. Was that the norm a hundred years ago? I don't know. Also, your stamp has a period after Fremont and before the O. All the old knives (mine included) I have handled, have the period after the O because the O is, of course, the abbreviation for Ohio.

Also, be careful of thinking that hand hammered pins are proof positive of a knife's age. There are knife doctors who can and do hand hammer pins today. I am in no way saying that your knife is not a genuine old Jackson knife. I really don't know. We are all here to learn more about our hobby.
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey Peanut, For the most part I certainly agree Sir. But its also not unusual for these EARLY Period knives Just to be Finished & out the door quickly. As I note also, The handles dont even match well. The quality control just wasnt that important and for the JACKSON knives that I have came across,,They were a sub Quality knife,,,Hence Blades not completely finished or lined up perfectly Etc. I have owned several Jackson knives and NONE of them seem to be HIGH QUALITY knives as PER QUALITY FIT & FINISH. I hope this helps and Thus the Reason for posting this knife, lol. This knife Possibly may have been cleaned but I truly & honestly dont think so,,,Its very very Crispy w/ minimal use.

Hey JTX, I can only go by my many Years in this Hobby as stating what I have Personally seen & Owned as being the "norm" for Most knives that are found. I have found that these JACKSON knives were NOT of the HIGHEST Quality standards and therefore the Periods and variations in the stampings are going to be found PLENTY((for instance the brass outer pins and steel center pins or vice versa, Etc,,,Probably depends on who was making the knife that day))!!
They likely had different guys making different stamps too, So they are not all going to be the same and many knives just get thrown out the door carelessly. I dont collect the Jackson knives and most collectors probably never even heard of the brand because they are not Plentiful so hence they stay under the radar as far as per collectability purposes,,I just tellin how I view them and the ones that I have owned over the Years is all.
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Mark
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey GUYS, Here is another Jackson I just found on ebay for reference.

Hey JTX, Look at this stamping Sir. Notice the PERIOD is before and after the "O" kinda cool huh. I like seeing these types of variations on EARLY knives, myself. I also note on this particular knife that BOTH Master & small blade have the CURVED stamping UNLIKE Mine. I find this stuff fascinating
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Mark
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by Jtx »

ratlesnake, I did not mean to upset you with my observations about your knife. It is simply my opinion, nothing more. As for your years of experience, you very well may have handled more knives than I have... I am only 68 years old.

The picture you just posted of an ebay knife, most certainly depicts a genuine old Jackson knife. Upon looking at the magnified image of the tang stamps, I am not certain that the mark on the small blade between Fremont and O is a period. It may be a blemish or tarnish mark. There is no way for most of us to know for certain, without having that knife in hand. So, we have an honest difference of opinion on that item. The master blade seems to clearly show only a period after the O.

I have no opinion on the value of Jackson knives. You stated that Jackson knives (I assume that would include your knife) are "not of the highest quality standards" and are "virtually worthless". I am not sure of the relevance of that statement is in this discussion. Mine was an inexpensive purchase years ago and is not for sale, so, in my case it is a moot point.

I do agree with you that the many variations in old knives is fascinating. To me, that is what makes this an interesting hobby. Curved stamps, straight stamps, serif letters, all blades stamped, one blade stamped and unpolished blades in a premium pattern are all interesting variations.

The main thing is that we all enjoy our hobby. And as gentlemen, we should be able to agree to disagree from time to time. I mean no offense by stating my opinions and I know that you did not mean any offense either. If these old knives could talk, they could set as all straight. :D
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey JTX, Yes Sir if only these knives could "Talk" and I never EVER get upset when talking about knives but MORE SO ENERGETIC. I certainly Respect your opinion Sir. I am sorry if I offended or said anything inappropriate Sir. I just trying to share my knowledge and Its actually difficult for me to write as my "basic" English & Literature Skills are not very good. I edited my Previous post about virtually worthless as that was just a Bad comparison on my part, so I apologize. I was just trying to compare the collectablity of Case/Remington/Keen kutter/Winchester knives to Jackson knives in terms of what most knife guys seem to want and are willing to pay a high price for.

I grew up learning about antique pocket knives and one of the 1st things I was taught at a very young age was that to make sure that "all blades are stamped" as rule #1 for authentic very old knives. For every Rule, There are Exceptions but this is where one must start off and then later on we learn about the exceptions to the rule. I know I have an unusual way of speaking & thinking but I assure you that I mean no disrespect ever. I am here just trying to be helpful Sir with my years of experience to be able to share with others what I have seen in the field.

I dont look at my Jackson knife as a premium pattern at all, just from my observation point. I look at it as an Unusual Hefty pattern of a HARD WORKING Man's knife, Not much different to me than a Serpentine pattern or Hefty jack knife. A premium pattern to me has Many EXTRA'S like but not including Lockback, Milled liners, fancy bolsters Etc and most Premium knives were Polished because of the addition of Blade etching at least this is my view point. When you talk about nothing is ABSOLUTE,,again you are right on because honestly who knows the Truth as most all this stuff is debatable and Yet it gives fascination & mystery to us all. I have found also that when it comes to serif or non serif lettering,,,You are going to see this variation among most Very early knives as I mentioned about who was making the stamps that day at the factory. I posted that Fremont with the "Period" before and after the "O" because I have seen many just like it Sir and that its not uncommon to see this,,Just a neat variation is all.
Kind Regards,
Mark
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Re: Jackson Knife & Shear Co.

Post by wlf »

Where did I hear that more knives were made in the area around Toledo ,at one time, than anywhere else?
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