IF It Were Only In Better Condition.....My Rarest Junk Knife

[btrwtr]

I am sure almost every collector on his site has a knife that "if only it was in better condition" would be a real jewel.

I consider the sowbelly pattern to be a rare duck in any old pre-1960 knife brand. Here are some pictures of some of my rarest junk knives, all sow-belly patterns.

The rarest of them all in my opinion is the 5 blade Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Co. Titusville PA. Sow-belly. Now an old sowbelly is a sweet knife. Original Schatt & Morgans are an elusive brand to find. But a 5 blade Schatt & Morgan sow-belly..............now for me that one takes the cake. If it were only in better condition.

I invite you to share some of your "if only it was in better condition" knives with us here.

Pictured are;

If it were only in better condition. IKCO in diamond logo in patterned goldstone Sow-belly.

If it were only in better condition. Shapleigh Diamond Edge Sow-belly with mottled celluloid handles.

If it were only in better condition. Schatt & Morgan oak leaf shield 3 spring 5 blade Sow-belly

If it were only in better condition. W.R. Case & Sons Bradford PA. G339 Sow-belly.

Wayne

[zp4ja]

I have a few. Rare or pretty scarce not in best condition that would bring large dollars if mint.

One immediately comes to mind for me. CASE TESTED 63052 Green Bone Split Back Whittler. Parts appear original but probably been apart at some point. Pocket worn, reprofiled or heavily used. Still a grand ole knife that gets sharp as a razor. From my Dad's collection.

Probably my most expensive EDC now as even a well used example will cost you a significant amount. I enjoy carrying it alot as I would never get the money out of it and I just like the knife alot. Screw it I thought, might as well have an old rare used one as an EDC. Why not? You just don't see these often mint or otherwise for that matter.

Not against owning one but I don't own any knives with broken blades at this point. Loose, less than mint, reprofiled, yes Sir. Although the day is still young...

Jerry

[Miller Bro's]

Nice ones Wayne

Where do I start? I am a sucker for an orphaned old knife no one else wants because it has some damage.

Here is a Marbles knife with perfect handles but a snapped blade tip and missing guard

[btrwtr]

Nice posts Jerry and Dimitri. I don't think you could possibly be ashamed of either of those 2 old gents. It's not hard to look past the flaws and see some fine lineage.

There's gotta be some more old gems out there.

Wayne

[knife7knut]

Here are a handful that I think would be great if in better shape:

Aaron Burkinshaw pearl tuxedo;mint pen blade-broken master blade.
Unusual folder marked Barneria;stamp dates to the 17th century,This one has pique work dating it to around 1840-1850.
Huge single blade folder;beautiful stag scales-handmde replacement blade.
Edward Barnes & Son folding dirk.
George Woodhead two blade jack;blades are rough as is the scales.The other knife is a Jonathan Crookes gunstock with an old repair done to the pile side scale.
Greaves folding dirk;broken scales and rough blade.
High Carbon Steel 5 blade with broken punch blade.
I*XL ivory whittler;very worn blades;dated 1870.
Unwin & Rogers ivory pen with mechanical pencil secondary blade and broken master blade.
Underwood multiblade;missing master blade;other broken blades.

[btrwtr]

Awesome showing of some rare blades k7k. The Barnes and Greaves folding dirks are rare in any condition. The Unwin & Rogers is too cool.

Wayne

[cbfd]

I have a few of them also,but don`t have photos of most of them,just this one.M.S.A. toenail,I would certainly like it to be better,but it is what it is,and I wasn`t passing it up.I like those sowbellies Wayne! Bill

[knife7knut]

That MSA has some of the most beautiful stag I've seen in awhile!Looks like someone really loved that knife.If it were mine it would be in my pocket ALL the time.

[0078]

I wish my aj Jordan was complete.

[cbfd]

I hear you k7k,I just wouldn`t want one that size in my pocket!

[knife7knut]

Here are a few more:
American Knife Co Plymouth(pre-1875)and 2 Waterville Cutlery Co.
American Shear&Knife Co and a big Holley.
Ascend W.T.Staniforth and a Peters Brothers Celebrated Cutlery.
Congreave circa 1840/
ClimAxe(Schmactenberg)with a button on either side to manually launch blade(top knife).
French fishtail-no maker's name.Nice blade but front bolsters are damaged.
Another George Woodhead knife-he made mostly Bowies;folding knives of his are rare;circa 1860-1870.
H.W.Mason 8 blade congress;cracked pearl scales and a bit pitted.
National Cutlery-HB Prolific Sheffield-Alfred & Sons Celebrated Cutlery.
W.H.Morley multiblade(14 blades IIRC)broken scales and a couple blades.

[btrwtr]

cbfd that MSA toenail is a beauty and 0078 the Jordan is a rare bird. I can see from the postings that I'm not the only one that appreciates these old knives for what they were and what they are. They may be a little ragged but the quality still shows through.

k7k amazing history in those knives!

Wayne

[zp4ja]

Some great old, beautiful, used knives being shown.

Here is one that qualifies in the posted category for me. The darkest CASE green bone I have ever personally seen. Blades slighty loose, Clip short, Spear reprofiled, crack mark side from center pin to top of the handle. Both blades stamped. This knife is a tank though. If she was mint or near, would book for 3500 bucks. Maybe if I get her tightened up I bit I will make it an EDC as these old TESTED blades really take a wicked edge.

CASE TESTED 6294J Regular Pull

You just don't see these often, in this condition or otherwise.

Jerry

[cbfd]

Still a nice one Jerry.This may be my favorite thread!

[btrwtr]

Yes Jerry, that J pattern is a winner. I had one years ago when I first started collecting. It was in unused condition. I took it to a knife show and a dealer wanted it badly. He offered me many knives in trade that would fit well in this post before he finally came up with the $$. Last I knew he still had it as a centerpiece in his collection. The J pattern 94's are rare birds in any condition!

Wayne

[knife7knut]

Yes Jerry, that J pattern is a winner. The J pattern 94's are rare birds in any condition!

Wayne

OK here is a question from someone who is not really conversant in Case patterns:
Is the J pattern separate from a regular 94 pattern? The reason I ask is my first Case knife was a redbone 6294(see pictures).The difference between it and the J pattern posted is the long pull on the master blade and the pen secondary blade that is on the same pivot pin as the master blade.Although the pivot pin is visible I don't think it has been tampered with as the overall condition of the blades is marginal.Maybe someone can enlighten me.

[MrBlister]

Here's ole rag of
a REMINGTON..
5 blades.. one tip busted.
Artta thro this thang up
on the barn roof !!!!!!!

[cbfd]

Kin Ya throw it my way Blista?

[knife7knut]

NICE ONE DAVE!!! Early too! I would carry that one any day of the week including Sunday.

[wazu013]

I'll bet this old Cat has a few stories to tell.

[btrwtr]

Here's ole rag of
a REMINGTON..
5 blades.. one tip busted.
Artta thro this thang up
on the barn roof !!!!!!!

Do you think you could throw it as far as Baytown? I'll get my catcher's mitt.

[btrwtr]

K7K, "J" is the letter case used to denote a long secondary blade. Same handle dies just a different blade configuration. Any Case knife in a J pattern is pretty rare. 6294J, 6347J, 6247J are patterns that come to mind. None common by any means. That long pull 94 of your's is a tough find as well.

Wayne

[btrwtr]

I'll bet this old Cat has a few stories to tell.

I think there are more stories in these knives than we have time to listen. Nice old Catt there!

[zp4ja]

Yes Jerry, that J pattern is a winner. The J pattern 94's are rare birds in any condition!

Wayne

OK here is a question from someone who is not really conversant in Case patterns:
Is the J pattern separate from a regular 94 pattern? The reason I ask is my first Case knife was a redbone 6294(see pictures).The difference between it and the J pattern posted is the long pull on the master blade and the pen secondary blade that is on the same pivot pin as the master blade.Although the pivot pin is visible I don't think it has been tampered with as the overall condition of the blades is marginal.Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Your knife is fine. Nice old "Big Cigar" Jack. Real beauty. I have a near mint red bone XX 6294. They are fine knives for sure.

The long pull and Jack versus Double End Jack does not factor into the "J" pattern versus an non-J. As Steve says in his book, it "denotes 2 long blades" Mine is technically a double end Jack but you don't see CASE putting what was before reprofiling, a full size spear and a full size clip on a knife. Hence the "J" versus a regular 94 pattern like yours. CASE also fo example has a TESTED 47 pattern stockman in both the J and regular pattern. They made numerous variations of the 47 pattern of course. As a basic example, the difference between them is that the regular 6347 with a normal length spey (roughly same length as the sheep foot or other secondary blade) whereas a 47J pattern will have a full length spey blade, the same length as the clip. The J patterns are rare and hard to come by.
Don't ask me why the 54 trapper would not qualify as a J pattern since it has a long clip and spay the same length. I do believe the answer is that the 54 trapper was never made with a short spay. If it was, one with a long spay would also be a J pattern.
CASE can be confusing at times. We all know that CASE used -1/2" to designate a clip blade, but there are exceptions. If the knife was only ever made in a clip, they don't use the "1/2" designation. Probably exception to that too. Like the 70's 11-1/2 pattern. But the 11 pattern was made with a spear in the old days, pre TESTED. Like the 6143 Daddy Barlow. Never made in a spear. If the had made in a Spear, it would have been a 6143 and the clip version would have been a 6143-1/2.
More than you asked for but that is what I know to be true.

Jerry

EDIT: Looks like Wayne beat me to the punch

[knife7knut]

Thank you Wayne and Jerry for the info.I can now say that I learned something new today;something my grandfather instilled in me from a very early age.His favorite saying was:"If you don't learn at least one new thing per day then you are probably dead." Wise advice from a very wise man who raised me from Day 1.