Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

Interesting question Mark.... I can say as there is nothing in the references but those 2 companies were in close proximity and had overlapping time frames... so some speculation (not an expert opinion :) ) ... given the close proximity it could be both had similar sources for materials from which they bought handle covers and shields... in addition some workers jumped between companies and perhaps took some materials along with them... no doubt as you said same exact handles and shields - pretty cool ::tu::
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ratlesnake75
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey LongBlade, That is some very good speculation and was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for giving me some insight.
Kind Regards,
Mark
I Buy/Sell/Trade All Vintage Antique Pocket knives from Junkers to Mint. I am Easy going, so Please shoot me a message ANYTIME!!! l Live & Breath KNIVES Everyday.
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FRJ
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by FRJ »

Nice knives, Mark.
Northfield was incorporated in 1858 with John S. Barnes as president.
In 1862 Samuel Mason replaced Barns as president.
In 1862 Waterville Knife Co.; John S. Barnes was president.

Notice different manufacturing names in Waterville in Goins encyclopedia.

Does your knife happen to read "Waterville Knife Co."?
Joe
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

Interesting Joe... I am currently not able to access my references untilI I get home (so speculated) but didn't recall that connection as you pointed out... dhillbilly didn't have Barnes in his reference research at the beginning of this thread at least in terms of the transition to Barnes from Kendricks... so based on your suggestion from Goins perhaps I would think it may support Barnes using sources for materials such as the horn covers (possible shield as well though some companies made their own - and in fact similar shields have been seen on other knives of that period from other companies) - nonetheless the similarity is striking... so did Barnes as President possibly have the connection for the handle covers and shield, and carried it over to Northfield?? ... maybe Salisbury was the source as that was the other CT supplier for handle covers and they didn't only specify just bone in early ads as did Rogers - early Rogers ads only advertised bone covers... ::hmm:: ... all in all no doubt there is a similarity in the horn and shield... and if you are right perhaps it supports my contention that there was a similar source for the covers (shield is not clear) - companies to my knowledge did "order" the materials for the handle at the least (the shield is less clear but again multiple companies used a similar shield) ... on the other hand I have seen similar horn from other companies from that early time period (I have similar horn on Quill knives from other companies from Nauagatuck - but maybe horn did not differ so much in the appearance no matter the source)... indeed your point may be an important connection to the answer of the question as asked by Mark ::nod:: !!
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ratlesnake75
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Hey Guys, Well done FRJ and I suspected as much,,Great Job!! Its Waterville Cutlery Co Conn and secondary blade w/ Curved Stamping.

Longblade, I too completely agree that the Horn handles of this time period resemble each other((I may have another one here on my desk we can use for Reference)),,,I just couldn't believe the Striking Similarities between these 2 knives,,Considering the Shields. Normally I dont pay much attention to the maker anymore unless its an "Hardware store name" that I am trying to figure out who made it. We normally just take for granted when the name is Waterville or Northfield and I think of them as Conn Knives. I am very happy that I posted these 2 knives as It surely has made an interesting discussion which TO ME is the FUN in Knife Collecting/buying/selling/trading. I thoroughly enjoy the mystery & speculation as you guys have graciously pointed out. Thank you guys for making me smile :D

Rare HORN handle "New England Cutlery" w/ Similar handles -- Pics below
Kind Regards,
Mark
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I Buy/Sell/Trade All Vintage Antique Pocket knives from Junkers to Mint. I am Easy going, so Please shoot me a message ANYTIME!!! l Live & Breath KNIVES Everyday.
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

ratlesnake75 wrote: I am very happy that I posted these 2 knives as It surely has made an interesting discussion which TO ME is the FUN in Knife Collecting/buying/selling/trading. I thoroughly enjoy the mystery & speculation as you guys have graciously pointed out.
Agree with you 150% Mark - I think there are more than a few of us who enjoy the intrigue and the aspect of the history is a large part :D .... I like to call us "CIs" - (Cutlery Investigators) :lol: :lol: ...
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dcgm4
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by dcgm4 »

Great-looking knives, Mark. ::tu::
Dave

Always looking for vintage knives with Virginia, Maryland, or Washington D.C. tang stamps. Any condition.
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by ratlesnake75 »

Cutlery Investigators,,,hahaha YES YES
Thx Dale & Lee
Kind Regards,
Mark
I Buy/Sell/Trade All Vintage Antique Pocket knives from Junkers to Mint. I am Easy going, so Please shoot me a message ANYTIME!!! l Live & Breath KNIVES Everyday.
woodwalker
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by woodwalker »

Here are a couple pictures of a soft and curvy one. Waterville warcliffe half whittler.
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FRJ
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by FRJ »

Oh yeah!!

That's a little beauty, woodwalker. ::tu::

Similar to mine on page 5.
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woodwalker
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by woodwalker »

Thank you Joe! That is the best one I got. That and the little robe!
woodwalker
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by woodwalker »

I seen yours!! Beautiful! I think they were made between 1865 and 1890. Love your too! Great company with lots of history! :)
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

I would like to share this Waterville 3 blade Senator with solid engraved aluminum handles (ie a skeleton knife with no outside liners) and a nickel silver liner between the 2 wells of the frame. Interestingly the master blade resides in one well and the other well has 2 pen blades on opposite ends. The master blade sports a cool match striker pull - see the master tang stamp photo where you can see pointy teeth of the long pull up close which seem to be struck at an angle. There are no half stops on any blade. Master blade has the straight line Waterville stamp and both pen blades have the arched stamp. The knife has a closed length of 3”.

This is my 3rd Waterville knife with engraved aluminum handles and all are different pen knife patterns. All 3 have the same pattern of engraving including the brass pin centered in the flower - as I noted somewhere before every aluminum handled knife I have seen has a consistent engraving pattern even among different knife makers – suggesting there may have been one jeweler that specialized in engraving these handles for the industry - and I often wonder if there was a handle scale/cover supplier which sold aluminum handle covers and had in-house expertise for this work – some speculate that these aluminum handles were outsourced to a jeweler for the engraving…. I don't think I ever saw an old Rogers or Salisbury Co advertisement that alludes to aluminum handles for sale - and I did post a few old advertisements from both companies at one time from The American Cutler on AAPK but need to find that thread...

Note in edit: Here's the ads and not much detail for any of the 4 companies supplying handle covers: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45098&p=501957&hil ... ry#p501957 - Need to do some more searching now for an answer as to aluminum handles that were worth more than gold or silver back at that time ::nod::
Closed Mark Side DSCN4268.JPG
Closed Pile Side DSCN4288.JPG
Blades Open DSCN4377 - Version 2.JPG
Tang Stamp Master Blade DSCN4380.JPG
Tang Stamp Pen Blade DSCN4454 3.JPG
Here's the other 2 Waterville engraved aluminum handles as alluded to above and for reference:
Blades Open DSCN5511.JPG
Blades Open DSCN8701.JPG
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by BWT »

Very nice Lee ::tu:: ::tu::
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woodwalker
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by woodwalker »

LongBlade wrote:I would like to share this Waterville 3 blade Senator with solid engraved aluminum handles (ie a skeleton knife with no outside liners) and a nickel silver liner between the 2 wells of the frame. Interestingly the master blade resides in one well and the other well has 2 pen blades on opposite ends. The master blade sports a cool match striker pull - see the master tang stamp photo where you can see pointy teeth of the long pull up close which seem to be struck at an angle. There are no half stops on any blade. Master blade has the straight line Waterville stamp and both pen blades have the arched stamp. The knife has a closed length of 3”.

This is my 3rd Waterville knife with engraved aluminum handles and all are different pen knife patterns. All 3 have the same pattern of engraving including the brass pin centered in the flower - as I noted somewhere before every aluminum handled knife I have seen has a consistent engraving pattern even among different knife makers – suggesting there may have been one jeweler that specialized in engraving these handles for the industry - and I often wonder if there was a handle scale/cover supplier which sold aluminum handle covers and had in-house expertise for this work – some speculate that these aluminum handles were outsourced to a jeweler for the engraving…. I don't think I ever saw an old Rogers or Salisbury Co advertisement that alludes to aluminum handles for sale - and I did post a few old advertisements from both companies at one time from The American Cutler on AAPK but need to find that thread...

Note in edit: Here's the ads and not much detail for any of the 4 companies supplying handle covers: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45098&p=501957&hil ... ry#p501957 - Need to do some more searching now for an answer as to aluminum handles that were worth more than gold or silver back at that time ::nod::

Closed Mark Side DSCN4268.JPG

Closed Pile Side DSCN4288.JPG

Blades Open DSCN4377 - Version 2.JPG

Tang Stamp Master Blade DSCN4380.JPG

Tang Stamp Pen Blade DSCN4454 3.JPG

Here's the other 2 Waterville engraved aluminum handles as alluded to above and for reference:

Blades Open DSCN5511.JPG

Blades Open DSCN8701.JPG
Very nice and nice deep mark too!! ::tu::
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

Thanks Bill and woodwalker ::tu:: ::tu:: ....
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by danno50 »

Nice knives, Lee! ::tu::
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

Thanks Dan ::tu:: ::tu:: ...
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FRJ
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by FRJ »

That Waterville is a real beauty, Lee, and so are the others. ::tu::
Joe
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by Miller Bro's »

8) knife Lee ::tu::
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

Thanks Joe and Dimitri ::tu:: ::tu:: ... much appreciated!
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by KAW »

I'm really excited about this acquisition as it was from the Waterville Knife factory that 16 workers struck off on their own & started the New York Knife Co. in 1852, but I'm hoping someone can help me out with this one as it is a pattern I have not seen before. The handle appears curved like a Congress which is emphasized by the arched shield, but the bottom has a center swell to it. Is there a name to this style of jack?

There's a long convoluted history to this company that is spelled out at the beginning of this thread, but I did not come across any dates as to when this variation of tang stamp was used. Does anyone know the time period when the

Water−
−ville

tang was used? Any info would be greatly appreciated...

10882 10883
'til later....
Ken

10031 means.... never having a dull moment. 8)
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LongBlade
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by LongBlade »

Sweet Ken - no doubt unusual 8) ::tu:: ::tu:: ... Not sure if it is technically correct but I would call it a Norfolk Jack (since the Norfolk patterns I have seen that are generally pen knives are sort of a half swell-center pattern as is this knife :)
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danno50
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by danno50 »

Very nice Ken! ::tu:: Levine calls the four blade version of this a "swell center congress or swayback". So maybe a swell center congress jack?
Dan
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Re: Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

Post by Old Folder »

Here is my Pearl "Waterville" 3-3/8" Equal-End-Jack.
Master blade has the three line:
WATERVILLE
CUTLERY CO
CONN
Beautiful pearl handles, half stop blades. Tight and snappy.
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It's always important to know what you don't know.
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