Waterville Manufacturing / Waterville Cutlery Info

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, Here is a 4" Waterville Jumbo,,,Matchstriker pull,,,Beefy knife. Love these Waterville and All the rest of Conn made knives. They were Awesome built and made to last a lifetime
Kind Regards,
Mark

[FRJ]

Yes Sir, Mark, that is a real beauty you're showing there.
Love those big Ebony handles.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey FRJ, Many thanks buddy!!
Kind Regards,
mark

[LongBlade]

Recent score - Waterville Co Reverse Peanut Jack (3 ") - some may call it a Serpentine Jack (pending on your terminology likes)... while I originally called it a Serpentine Jack it was pointed out to me that one would call it a Reverse Peanut Jack based on size and the bolster size which is reversed from what one may call a Peanut Jack - i.e. the smaller tapered bolster in the pivot... Nice long pull on master and brass liners... Nice old hammered nickel silver pins in handle covers too.. tang stamp is the same on master and pen as seen in open blades and the tang stamp shown is exactly the same on both blades (date probably 1880-ish based on research info in starting thread by dhillbilly) - solid knife for sure ...

Thanks for looking!!

[ratlesnake75]

LongBlade, No matter what you call it,,,,Its a Sweet knife in Killer Condition. I was under the impression it was called "Small" dogleg jack??
Kind Regards,
Mark

[LongBlade]

Thanks Mark ... you know the terminology used for patterns is not in stone for many - serpentine, dogleg, peanut (which to me is just a small serpentine), reverse peanut (still not sure I understand that one but has to do with the reversed size of both ends on a small serpentine jack )... Anyway not sure there is a right answer but certainly lots of opinions and confusion especially when different companies made the same style knife but gave it different names - even whittlers ... and who knows what Waterville called this pattern - probably a small jack knife

Cheers
Lee

[galvanic1882]

Man that's a nice one great score!!!

[FRJ]

Exceptional little knife, Lee. A real survivor.

[danno50]

Very nice find, Lee, great little knife in very good condition!
Dan

[LongBlade]

Thanks Mike, Joe and Dan... much appreciated ... great addition for my collection and Waterville pile of knives ... and thanks again to Wayne (btrwtr) for selling it to me at the NCCA show - his tables had quite a few nice knives of many different makers and patterns!!!

[wlf]

Beautiful knife buddy. I'd say it would be like going to a museum, seeing Wayne's collection .

[wlf]

Great organizational work dhillbilly

Also what B said dhillbilly, great research.

[dcgm4]

That's a gorgeous dogleg, Lee!

You're right about the terminology. Many are interchangeable, but also can be specific or broad. Your knife is a good example. It's a serpentine jack because of its curves. More specifically, it's a dogleg jack (or a reverse peanut if you prefer). But there are other patterns that are serpentine jacks but not dogleg jacks, such as wharncliffe jacks. It's all just classification. Kind of like taxonomy. For example, the American black bear and Asian black bear both fall under the Ursus genus but are different species; American black bear (Ursus americanus), Asian black bear (Ursus thibetanus).

[LongBlade]

Thanks Lyle and Dave

Lyle - good to see your face here - I grin in your own words ...

Dave - Nomenclature or terminology can no doubt be as complicated as one makes it ... JerryD once wrote ... "My knife my nomenclature or terminology".. I have to say that may be on the money.. certain knives such as folding hunters or even more so timber scribes may be more straight forward as most companies made similar patterns and they are recognizable... others with finer discrepancies are more up in the air & may need a different species name but in the end all fall under the same genus in terms of pattern names to which you made the analogy

Best!

[ratlesnake75]

Morning GUYS, What the Heck is going on here with ME Knives?? Same handles, Same shield, Different names.

Is there a close connection between Waterville and Northfield? Did they have Knives made for each other? Has anyone else seen Examples like this?

I have not looked up in Goins YET to see if there may be a connection w/ supervisors/owners etc, But I would like to hear some thoughts from you Experts and I thank you in advance
Kind Regards,
Mark

[LongBlade]

Interesting question Mark.... I can say as there is nothing in the references but those 2 companies were in close proximity and had overlapping time frames... so some speculation (not an expert opinion ) ... given the close proximity it could be both had similar sources for materials from which they bought handle covers and shields... in addition some workers jumped between companies and perhaps took some materials along with them... no doubt as you said same exact handles and shields - pretty cool

[ratlesnake75]

Hey LongBlade, That is some very good speculation and was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for giving me some insight.
Kind Regards,
Mark

[FRJ]

Nice knives, Mark.
Northfield was incorporated in 1858 with John S. Barnes as president.
In 1862 Samuel Mason replaced Barns as president.
In 1862 Waterville Knife Co.; John S. Barnes was president.

Notice different manufacturing names in Waterville in Goins encyclopedia.

Does your knife happen to read "Waterville Knife Co."?

[LongBlade]

Interesting Joe... I am currently not able to access my references untilI I get home (so speculated) but didn't recall that connection as you pointed out... dhillbilly didn't have Barnes in his reference research at the beginning of this thread at least in terms of the transition to Barnes from Kendricks... so based on your suggestion from Goins perhaps I would think it may support Barnes using sources for materials such as the horn covers (possible shield as well though some companies made their own - and in fact similar shields have been seen on other knives of that period from other companies) - nonetheless the similarity is striking... so did Barnes as President possibly have the connection for the handle covers and shield, and carried it over to Northfield?? ... maybe Salisbury was the source as that was the other CT supplier for handle covers and they didn't only specify just bone in early ads as did Rogers - early Rogers ads only advertised bone covers... ... all in all no doubt there is a similarity in the horn and shield... and if you are right perhaps it supports my contention that there was a similar source for the covers (shield is not clear) - companies to my knowledge did "order" the materials for the handle at the least (the shield is less clear but again multiple companies used a similar shield) ... on the other hand I have seen similar horn from other companies from that early time period (I have similar horn on Quill knives from other companies from Nauagatuck - but maybe horn did not differ so much in the appearance no matter the source)... indeed your point may be an important connection to the answer of the question as asked by Mark !!

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, Well done FRJ and I suspected as much,,Great Job!! Its Waterville Cutlery Co Conn and secondary blade w/ Curved Stamping.

Longblade, I too completely agree that the Horn handles of this time period resemble each other((I may have another one here on my desk we can use for Reference)),,,I just couldn't believe the Striking Similarities between these 2 knives,,Considering the Shields. Normally I dont pay much attention to the maker anymore unless its an "Hardware store name" that I am trying to figure out who made it. We normally just take for granted when the name is Waterville or Northfield and I think of them as Conn Knives. I am very happy that I posted these 2 knives as It surely has made an interesting discussion which TO ME is the FUN in Knife Collecting/buying/selling/trading. I thoroughly enjoy the mystery & speculation as you guys have graciously pointed out. Thank you guys for making me smile

Rare HORN handle "New England Cutlery" w/ Similar handles -- Pics below
Kind Regards,
Mark

[LongBlade]

I am very happy that I posted these 2 knives as It surely has made an interesting discussion which TO ME is the FUN in Knife Collecting/buying/selling/trading. I thoroughly enjoy the mystery & speculation as you guys have graciously pointed out.

Agree with you 150% Mark - I think there are more than a few of us who enjoy the intrigue and the aspect of the history is a large part .... I like to call us "CIs" - (Cutlery Investigators) ...

[dcgm4]

Great-looking knives, Mark.

[ratlesnake75]

Cutlery Investigators,,,hahaha YES YES
Thx Dale & Lee
Kind Regards,
Mark

[woodwalker]

Here are a couple pictures of a soft and curvy one. Waterville warcliffe half whittler.

[FRJ]

Oh yeah!!

That's a little beauty, woodwalker.

Similar to mine on page 5.