Winchester Knife Co

[Jacknifeben]

Napanoch had the patent on the double fluted punch blade and sold out to Winchester in early 1920's, Real nice rare knife.

[wlf]

Nice one Cates , congratulations that's a beauty.

[cato]

Was sent this info, on this knife by another member here,

thank yo so much very interesting..

[cato]

This one got in today...

3- 5/8ths Balloon Swell Center Cattle Pattern

Model 3010 Abalone Blue

[junebug]

wow...............
great snag,CATES

[cato]

newest Winchester
Barlow
one arm razor

[BWT]

I've had these two for a while, haven't seen a lot of Winchesters on AAPK. Here is my two.

[LongBlade]

Nice knives Bill ... Your smaller knife looks almost like the pattern noted on page 1 of this thread which is a good summary of the history noting the role of Eagle, Napanoch and the merger with Simmons 3 years after they started making knives in 1919 (interestingly what is not noted is that disgruntled Napanoch employees left Winchester in 1921 and returned to Napanoch to start and started Honk Falls Knife Co)... Winchester ended around 1942. The other looks to be a lock back hunter unless I am mistaken? Most of their early knives had model #s stamped on the pile sides of the master but not seeing that on either of yours....

Original Winchester knives are not that common - they didn't produce close to the number of knives compared to Remington, for example, so that may be one reason.. Two other notes - one also has to be careful of Winchester counterfeits and many repros were made later on by companies such as Queen if I am not mistaken - later on in the 1980s(?) by Blue Grass Cutlery in Germany...

I have 2 Winchesters to share which I posted awhile back somewhere on AAPK but never knew this thread existed which is a good place for both (click on photos to enlarge)...

Winchester Jack (Model #2911 on pile side - most likely an earlier top of the line knife as both master and pen blades were marked according to Houston/Zalesky info) -

Winchester Jr Stock Whittler - Rare pattern with faux horn celluloid handles - Model #3046 on pile side (don't have photo of pile side stamp - Full Winchester etch - At bottom I am attaching a catalog cut of this knife thanks to another AAPK member who kindly provided it on another thread somewhere on AAPK ..

[Mumbleypeg]

Very nice Lee! Wish I knew more about Winchester knives. There are a lot of fake Winchesters so that has steered me clear of them. If I knew more I'd be into them for sure - they're great old knives. Winchester in and of itself has fascinating history - once upon a time everything from sporting goods to hardware, tools and paint to kitchen appliances like toasters and coffee pots were sold with the Winchester brand on them.

Ken

[BWT]

Lee that is a beautiful knife, love the bone. I'm like Ken, I wish I knew more about Winchester. I had no idea these might be counterfeit. I have seen remakes of Winchesters on eBay, but I thought these were original. You are right there are no pattern numbers on them. Thanks for the info and the comments.

[Mumbleypeg]

Bill, I didn't mean to imply yours are counterfeit. Just remarking that the counterfeit Winchesters and my ignorance about them has kept me away. Don't read anything into that statement.

Ken

[LongBlade]

Thanks Ken ... I agree the aspect of counterfeits is an issue - couple that to original Winchester knives being fairly rare makes it a hard brand to be comfortable collecting... at least with Case knives where counterfeits are numerous there are lots of references and original Case knives from which to learn the ins-and-outs of them.. not so with Winchester and I don't know one collector who focuses on Winchester ... I got lucky finding these 2 which I was able to confirm as being original... You rarely if ever see original Winchesters on eBay and the great majority seen are repros...

Winchester did make alot of products as did Remington in addition to their well known guns & knives - I think that is why some consider both of them as National brands... Speaking of the many products they made and sold - last year I saw an old Remington cash register for sale at a antique shop - and it was made somewhere in NY state with the Remington brand name ...

Thanks Bill .... I'm not saying yours are counterfeit - I'm not sure in the 1930s when Winchester quality started to slide if the model #s were still used - I just don't know and am far from a Winchester expert.... I'm not sure we have anybody on AAPK who knows Winchester really well - maybe Dimitri has some knowledge about them...

[BWT]

Lee and Ken, I appreciate both of your input. I hope they aren't counterfeit, but I would definitely like to know. The best thing is no one else will have to worry about it.I don't sell any of my knives. If there was that emergency situation where I had to it wouldn't be these two.

[stockman]

newest Winchester
Barlow
one arm razor

cato, is your Barlow a old Winchester or Queen made knife? Looks like you are getting a few nice ones.

Harold

[LongBlade]

Lee and Ken, I appreciate both of your input. I hope they aren't counterfeit, but I would definitely like to know. The best thing is no one else will have to worry about it.I don't sell any of my knives. If there was that emergency situation where I had to it wouldn't be these two.

Bill - Do you have Goins reference book on company stamps?? I recommend it if you don’t as an important source to verify the stamp existed, sometimes to date a knife and with some (not all) company stamps there is a brief history ... Nonetheless the stamps were basically the same though some, importantly not all, like my jack had a hyphen before and after Trade Mark - that doesn’t relate to real vs fake though.. Importantly Goins notes many Winchester FAKES (in capital letters ) are out there and he said some are so good that even Winchester experts are fooled - that makes for some tough collecting and knowing knives real well for the slightest hints may still make it tough... the important point now Bill is that you like the knives and their solid as you noted ... I’m not sure what role the lack of model #s play into determining real from fake - again later in the 1930s it is possible that model #s weren’t used or maybe your knives were made by Queen which given their closure makes them collectible anyway ... I just don’t know - just enjoy the knives buddy!!!

[BWT]

Thanks Lee I will still enjoy looking at them, and I have a Goins. I had looked at the tang stamps in the book and on the knife to see when they were made. For whatever reason at that time I didn't read what Goins said about them. I just got to excited when I found the knives. I will definitely remember that in the future, could be a costly error.

[peanut740]

BWT-Bill,I hate to tell you this ,but your lockback hunter is not right.Winchester never made a pattern like yours.If I were to guess your's started as an Ulster.Winchester put pattern #'s on their knives also.Winchester made a 1950 pattern lockback banana pattern with a saber blade and the 1920 cokebottle,but nothing like yours.Sorry.

[BWT]

That's ok Roger, you live and learn, I appreciate your help. Thanks

[LongBlade]

BWT-Bill,I hate to tell you this ,but your lockback hunter is not right.Winchester never made a pattern like yours.If I were to guess your's started as an Ulster.Winchester put pattern #'s on their knives also.Winchester made a 1950 pattern lockback banana pattern with a saber blade and the 1920 cokebottle,but nothing like yours.Sorry.

Good input Roger though sorry Bill for the news - definitely took someone who has seen many Winchesters and others to make that determination though I suspected the lack of model #s was perhaps an issue ...

Bill - it happens and to many of us in one way or another somewhere along the learning curve..

Roger - Just so I have this right as I wasn't able to locate the info but Winchester did have model #s on all their knives from 1919 until they closed their doors in 1942?? I had a feeling when I had read their quality dropped in the later 1930s that perhaps the model #s may not have been on every knife but that was my interpretation... Were model #s still on the later reproductions??? Interestingly the Winchester stamps were almost indistinguishable according to Goins even on later repros...

[peanut740]

Yes Lee, late in their production they may have stopped putting pattern #'s on for cost cutting,and yes the quality went way down.I don't know if it was true in all cases or not.Bill's knife is just a pattern they didn't make.Ulster and Northfield are 2 companies that made that type knife.
Both Sargent's 3rd edition and Price guide to Collecteors Knives have Winchester listings in them and neither of them list anything like it.

[LongBlade]

Thanks Roger .. I understood that the knife was not right and never made based on your first post but I was was trying to learn about their use of model #s for my own edification - much appreciated Roger!!!

[woodwalker]

Here is one I have.

[LongBlade]

Woodwalker - That’s a beauty of Winchester lobster pattern .... just nice all the way around - sweet jigged bone and a HOK - love it!!!! Personally I can overlook a small chip or crack on handle when all else is appealing...

[BWT]

Very nice WW especially the bone, nice find

[thefarside]

Bill,
Note the tang stamps on your knives and the lack of a hyphen on either side of the words 'trade mark'. I always take a hard look at any supposed old Winchester without the hyphen before and after the words 'trade mark' on a Winchester tang stamp. During the 70's there were a lot of fake Winchesters circulating at the bigger knife shows and the lack of the hyphen was one of the best tells.
Jim