OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this knife?

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Knife Nut » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:30 am

About a year ago there was a Wolf knife came up for auction on this site via the Johnnie Fain auction. I could kick my own butt that I missed out on that purchase.

Paul

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Unk » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:00 am

Yes, Paul, I could kick myself for missing that one as well. Guess I need to pay more attention!

Willie,

I noticed that Pa Knives posting (on page 1) showed a Jess Crouch knife with a lanyard hole, along with two Chris Wolf knives without a lanyard hole. Makes me think the hole on the Jess Crouch knives are "from the factory". ......and I just found this old link showing a Jess Crouch knife with a bail on it. I guess mine and Pa's may be missing the bail....

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14228&hilit=crouch
Mike

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Unk » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:40 pm

I did a little research on ancestry.com today on Jess Crouch - here is what I found.....

Jesse Crouch – born in Pennsylvania – probably Warren County - in July 1865 - Son of George & Drucilla (Buell) Crouch
1870 – Warren Co., PA – Jesse is 4 yrs old. George is listed as a Carpenter.
1880 – Warren Co., PA – Jesse is 15 years old – George is listed as a Carpenter.
(1890 Census was burned up in a fire in 1921.)
He married Viola (?) in 1892
His son John V. Crouch was born Oct 29, 1893.
1900 – Erie Co., New York - 34 yrs old – married to Viola – son John V. (6 yrs old) is listed . Jess’s occupation is “bookkeeper”. Gowanda, where Schatt & Morgan was founded in 1892 – is in Erie Co., NY. Schatt and Morgan moved to Titusville, Crawford Co., PA around 1895-1902? (I have seen both dates listed)
His son Richard C. was born about 1905.
1910 – Crawford Co., PA – 46 yrs old – married to Viola. Occupation is “bookkeeper”
1920 - Crawford Co., PA – 54 yrs old – married to Viola – Occupation is “Manager – Owner Cutlery”
I believe he died in 1921.
Mike

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby knifegirl888 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:09 am

That's cool that you were able to research about Crouch. Bret888 & I have a Chris Wolf knife. We were lucky to find it in a "lot" on ebay. It wasn't very well advertised at all.


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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby PA Knives » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:11 pm

I don't want to say that it is written in stone, "that gets me in trouble" but it appears that only Crouch knives have the lanyard hole in them. At least that seems to be the what i have witnessed.

For those of you that don't have one of these knives, let me say you are missing out on an extermely heavy and well built tool. Nothing fancy but thick blades, serious snap and made for heavy use. I now own both as a part of my extensive PENNSYLVANIA related cutlery items.

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Unk » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:12 pm

Thanks Knifegirl.

Jess Crouch was pretty easy to find and research - I found all of the above in about 30 minutes. Chris Wolf, other hand.....that guy must have been a ghost. I can't find anything on him, other than what is on this board and another knife forum.
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Unk » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:07 pm

I haven't had much time to collect pocketknives this year - most of my funds have gone towards sprucing up an old M1 Garand and an AK (SAR-1). You never know when the zombie apocolypse is gonna hit - lol.

I was perusing e-bay a couple of weeks ago when I saw one of these - they don't come up for auction very often, so when they do, I figure you gotta get it then or never (or at least wait a long time). This one cost me about double the first one, so I guess some of you guys were paying attention. :wink:

The one with the dark brown handles is the new one.

Anyway, I have a pair of Jess Crouch bookends now. Maybe one of these days I'll find me a Chris Wolf.....
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby knifegirl888 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:52 pm

UNK,

Nice catch! :mrgreen:
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby knifeaholic » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:45 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... _500wt_949

I saw the above knife on Ebay...interesting that it was in the old Sears catalog!!!
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Bret888 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:22 am

That is interesting! I had no idea they were sold by Sears. I wonder now, that since they were "probably the ugliest looking knife on the market", they chose not to put S&M on them?
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$(KGrHqV,!lcE9R8yOOBDBPkGhoRD0!~~60_3.JPG

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Unk » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:12 am

Steve, Knifegirl,

Thanks for posting that info! I had no idea these were sold by Sears either. They are also older than I thought - I figured they dated to around 1920. Nice to have it confirmed they are all hand-made, too, although I kinda suspected that by the look of them. The rough, hand-made look is why I like them.

I may not have the most expensive knife, or the fanciest knife, or the sharpest knife....but now I can claim to have not one but two of the ugliest knives! :D
Mike

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby Iron Hoarder » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:01 am

I wish i had seen this thread before. I passed up one of these over here. It was in bad shape but I thought it was some kind of French or German export knife. ::facepalm:: ::dang::
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby knifegirl888 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:24 pm

I copied the text from the copy because I thought it was hard to read in the picture. This is just awesome stuff!

This knife is made entirely by hand, and for this reason it is probably the ugliest looking knife on the market. No attempt is made to make this knife look attractive, but it contains the very best material and the finest grinding that can be produced. The blade of this knife is hand hammered from a bar of the best crucible steel forged out on an anvil, the same as you have seen your blacksmith forge a bar of steel. The marks of the hammer show plainly on the blade. The handle is made of Beachwood, not stain or varnished. The linings are of heavy steel. It has but one blade, 3-3/8 inches long. Length of knife when open, 7 1/2 inches.
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby danielsfamilyknives » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:59 am

That's a really cool knife David I see your still searching for tgem

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Postby nifbuf » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:14 pm

What wonderful new info concerning Chris Wolf. Sears? Who would have guessed it? In my earlier post from 2007 I stated that Wolf must have been a senior employee at S&M since we know that Crouch was plant superintendent and Sec/ treasurer until his death in 1921… this was also a conclusion based on the fact that this Wolf knife in identical to the Crouch knife except for the lanyard hole. I have been looking for Wolf, of and on, for some time now but found nothing about him in the Titusville newspapers, the US census, the Gowanda newspapers or the cities directories of these towns. It is almost as if he did not exist. The search of the U S census of 1900, 1910,and 1920 did turn up several Chris Wolfs and Christopher Wolfs but most were farmers, laborers, painters, plumbers and a couple of merchants. None were associated with cutlery.
I have the old Sears catalog and found the Chris Wolf knife, it was posted twice. I scanned the ads and they are shown here.
So, could it be that a S&M salesman, maybe even John Schatt, called on the Sears buyers and together developed this Wolf stamping as a Sears stamping, much like Wilbert Cutlery being a Sears trademark?
BTW – does anyone who made the Wilbert knives?
I recently took another photo of the Jess Crouch blade stamp still at the Queen factory - see below also.
Attachments
Chris Wolf Sears 1905 - 1910 catalog (1).jpg
Chris Wolf Sears 1905 - 1910 catalog (2).jpg
Jess Crouch stamps (8).JPG
David Clark


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